Very stiff clutch pedal.

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Ok this is my first post on this forum so a little back story is probably in order. 
I have been doing an engine overhaul on my parents '38 B ser. 2375.  The tractor has been in the family since Grandpa drove it home as a kid from the railroad at North Powder, OR to Union, OR when his dad recieved it from the WWII lottery.  Last summer the governor came apart on us while idling around after my brother went through a dip in the driveway.  I tore her down this past winter and have the engine together and back on the tractor.  I had ordered a 9 inch clutch and when it arrived the pressure plate was wrong, 3 groups of 2 bolts instead of  6 evenly spaced ones.  Well got that worked out with the guy I ordered it from and put this pressure plate on.  It is a reman unit from Hy-Capacity through Scholtens Equipment in Lynden, WA.  
Tried to start her with Grandpa today for the first time and found that we could not get the clutch to disengage.  I had thought it didn't feel right and had put the engine on and of about 6 times when reassembling but couldn't see or find anything wrong.  The friction plate only goes one way, I adjusted the fingers the way the manual said, adjusted the linkage and had thought maybe the new clutch is just really, really stiff.  Not the case.  Looking for some suggestions where to look before I split her apart again.  

There is wear in the linkage.  Haven't replaced it yet because I was trying to get her running to turn hay.  The old clutch worked with the wear though so I am pretty sure that is not it.

What do you think?

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4748kb7s Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 13 Jul 2011 Location: Oregon Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote 4748kb7s Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Very stiff clutch pedal. Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 2:41pm
	Ok this is my first post on this forum so a little back story is probably in order. I have been doing an engine overhaul on my parents '38 B ser. 2375. The tractor has been in the family since Grandpa drove it home as a kid from the railroad at North Powder, OR to Union, OR when his dad recieved it from the WWII lottery. Last summer the governor came apart on us while idling around after my brother went through a dip in the driveway. I tore her down this past winter and have the engine together and back on the tractor. I had ordered a 9 inch clutch and when it arrived the pressure plate was wrong, 3 groups of 2 bolts instead of 6 evenly spaced ones. Well got that worked out with the guy I ordered it from and put this pressure plate on. It is a reman unit from Hy-Capacity through Scholtens Equipment in Lynden, WA. Tried to start her with Grandpa today for the first time and found that we could not get the clutch to disengage. I had thought it didn't feel right and had put the engine on and of about 6 times when reassembling but couldn't see or find anything wrong. The friction plate only goes one way, I adjusted the fingers the way the manual said, adjusted the linkage and had thought maybe the new clutch is just really, really stiff. Not the case. Looking for some suggestions where to look before I split her apart again. There is wear in the linkage. Haven't replaced it yet because I was trying to get her running to turn hay. The old clutch worked with the wear though so I am pretty sure that is not it. What do you think?

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Bee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 14 Jun 2010 Location: NC Points: 201	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 4:08pm
	Can you look up through the inspection hole and make sure the throw out bearing is away from the clutch fingers. Is the rod that runs from the foot pedal to the throw out bearing binding on the hole where it enters the torque tube (bell housing area)?
	Bob, North Carolina 1949 B

4748kb7s Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 13 Jul 2011 Location: Oregon Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote 4748kb7s Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 4:55pm
	The mower makes looking in the tube difficult but I can feel the throwout bearing pull away from the fingers. The pedal has freeplay but as soon as I hit the fingers everthing stops and the rod flexes. I am going to pull her apart and install the old pressure plate on the new friction disk (not how I want to run her with the heat spots in the surface but...). If things move correctly then the clutch must just be too stiff.

Orange Blood Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053	Post Options Post Reply Quote Orange Blood Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 5:19pm
	While you have it apart, neasure the height of the old vs. new pressure plate installed, to the release finger, from a fixed point on the block, this will more than likely take two people and a straight edge. I bet you still have the wrong new pressure plate. The only other things I can think of, are flywheel bolts that are too high, which make contact with the clutch disk, the clutch disc is in backwards, or the clutch disk is the wrong thickness, so measure it too. I know they aren't terribly hard to spit, but you will want the right parts in there in the long run, even if you are able to make it work.
	Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7

4748kb7s Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 13 Jul 2011 Location: Oregon Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote 4748kb7s Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 6:07pm
	Needed a break for something to drink. You are right about something being wrong, probably the pressure plate. I looked closer at everthing hanging there and when bolted on the springs in the plate are completely compressed. I am going to try the new friction plate and old pressure plate and see how that looks then if I like it put it together and try. If that doesn't work well the old clutch will go back in and I will try hard to find the right one. It just sucks that the $270 clutch kit I bought probably won't work. On the Hy-capacity web site there are four options for the friction disks, new/reman woven or new/reman ceramic and two reman pressure plates or one new one. Not a lot of options there.

Orange Blood Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053	Post Options Post Reply Quote Orange Blood Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 6:32pm
	If when you bolted on the pressure plate, the fingers sucked all of the way in, there is really only one thing wrong, the clutch disc clearance is not right, so either the friction disc is too thick, double check the old vs. new. or is still possible the new pressure plate is wrong, measure them side by side sitting on a flat surface, and check the height. or maybe someone has put the wrong flywheel on this tractor, and all the parts you have are correct, but the orriginal stuff is not correct, but worked since it was a package deal!
	Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7

4748kb7s Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 13 Jul 2011 Location: Oregon Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote 4748kb7s Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 7:06pm
	Had to bolt it back together without a clutch for now, a thunderstorm moved in. All of this is now the least of my worries. Apparently $1500 in machine work buys you water in the oil. I now need to pull the oil pan and try to pressurize the cooling system to see where it is coming from for sure. I guess it is possible it is coming from the head gasket but I put in all the orings and torqued to spec. I have good Snap-on torque wrenches too, not harbor freight ones. Anyway, back to the clutch. The old disk is down to the rivits so measuring thickness doesn't give a good idea. It is currently half as thick as the new one, right where the new plate runs out of grooves in the friction material. With both pressure plates unbolted and sitting on the ground the fingers on the old one are 2 3/8" fully extended and the new one is 2 5/8". When I first got in touch with the guy I bought this kit from about the differences in the bolt patterns he did mention that the serial number didn't support the clutch that is installed. I know Grandpa hasn't torn her down this far before. She was rebuilt in the 60s or early 70s supposedly with a "C kit". I have no idea if the clutch has ever been replaced or who did the rebuild. The flywheel had no machine shop markings but knowing cheap farmers that doesn't mean anything.

Orange Blood Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053	Post Options Post Reply Quote Orange Blood Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 8:14pm
	I forgot to mention, but when you measure the pressure plates, also measure or compare the bolt surface when the friction surface is even.
	Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7

Dave H (NE) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Western NE Points: 288	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dave H (NE) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 9:20pm
	have had hy-capacity pressure plates with wrong springs. they would not release

4748kb7s Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 13 Jul 2011 Location: Oregon Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote 4748kb7s Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2011 at 9:54pm
	So, Dave, how did you remedy your problem? I can't find a contact number or email for them on their site.

Rick Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Jonesburg,Mo. Points: 3651	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rick Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jul 2011 at 4:57am
	I would venture to say that the pressure plate has the wrong springs in it...especially if it feels like you're pushing against a brick wall. Also,all of the Hy-Capacity units that I've dealt with had the release fingers set wrong to the clutch disc. The original 9" units are very hard to come by,so the 8 1/2" units were/are the replacements...so-to-speak. I think they actually only used the 9" pressure plate for a few years. You can get your 9" unit rebuilt though... Rick

KC-WD45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 11 Oct 2010 Location: Kansas City Points: 114	Post Options Post Reply Quote KC-WD45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jul 2011 at 8:34am
	I don't know anything about the B series but as far as the coolant in the oil issue are you sure the head gasket is right side up?

4748kb7s Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 13 Jul 2011 Location: Oregon Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote 4748kb7s Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jul 2011 at 8:49am
	For some reason having the clutch rebuilt hadn't occured to me. We do have a place locally that might do it, I will have to give them a call. When I get back home this afternoon I am going to pressurize the system and see where the water is coming from. If it is my screw up I am pissed, if the machine shop screwed up I will be very pissed and I will be taking the whole engine back to them. I only took the rotating assembly, block and head to them before and I installed the head. I guess I will find out.

4748kb7s Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 13 Jul 2011 Location: Oregon Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote 4748kb7s Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Aug 2011 at 11:59am
	Ok now that I have the leaking head replaced I am getting back to the clutch on this. Talked to the local clutch rebuilder (six states distributing in Boise) and reassembled everything to double check that I am not going mad. I'm not. I can't even get the fingers adjusted quite right, I am at the top of the bolts and still a little low. Reading through my reprint manual and it says; "install thin lining on front side of plate". Wait, thin lining? Both sides of my friction plate are equal thickness. I might have found my problem. Anyone with experiance with the hy-capacity clutches run into this? Should I order another friction plate? (this time I would talk to AGCO probably) Any other suggestions?