This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Tractor Gas

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
TedBuiskerN.IL. View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Davis, IL.
Points: 1959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TedBuiskerN.IL. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tractor Gas
    Posted: 28 May 2011 at 1:37pm
Just got a 1969 180 gas running good.  It had not run in six or seven years, but was in a shed.  The book calls for 91 research octane gasoline.  Is that the same as the octane listed on the pumps at the service station?  On the pump it has a formula of R+M/2.  I assume that is Research  +  M???? divided by 2.  I drove it to town and put 93 octane Shell in it.  Does this tractor need high octane gas at 8.25 : 1 compression? 
Someone who knows help me out here.
Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Jeff Z. NY View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Points: 7326
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff  Z.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2011 at 1:46pm
Probably not at that compression ratio.
The R+M/2 method is just a tricky way of posting good numbers on the pump since it's and average between two octane rating methods.
Back to Top
Jeff Z. NY View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Points: 7326
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff  Z.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2011 at 1:50pm
PS: Right, "R" for research method.

That will not be the number on the pump.
Back to Top
Jeff Z. NY View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Points: 7326
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff  Z.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2011 at 2:04pm
I'm not sure since it's been along time ago since my racing days but I think one test is a high speed test and the other is a low speed test and the standard now is to average them to get the bests of both worlds for the engine at all speeds.
I don't remember, it's been along time since I messed with gas octane ratings. I can't even remember what the test chemical was but I could never pronounce it anyway.
Back to Top
dadsdozerhd5b View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Location: lansdale pa.
Points: 531
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dadsdozerhd5b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2011 at 4:27pm
do yourself a favor and run the high test. it will run better and store longer if you are not working it hard. also has less or no ethanol in it to go bad faster. i have had alot of funky things happening with carburators that have never been a problem before even with stabil in  them.
HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
Back to Top
427435 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Location: SE Minnesota
Points: 18637
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 427435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2011 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by dadsdozerhd5b dadsdozerhd5b wrote:

do yourself a favor and run the high test. it will run better and store longer if you are not working it hard. also has less or no ethanol in it to go bad faster. i have had alot of funky things happening with carburators that have never been a problem before even with stabil in  them.


Actually the opposite is true.  If you run E10 gas all the time, you'll have less storage problems.  If the old gas tank has a bunch of water and crud in the bottom of it, the first tank or two of E10 could be a problem as you clean that stuff out.  Once cleaned out, the E10 will keep your tank and carburetor free of standing water.   It's the cleaning out process of old shellac buildup in the carbs that can be an issue referred to above but, once clean, the carbs stay clean with E10.

Contrary to all the old wives (shade tree mechanics) tales, E10 is the way to go.  I've just restarted my boat, MH, 2 garden tractors, a lawn mower, and an old chain saw after they sat all winter with E10 in the tanks.  The garden tractor and lawn mower tanks weren't even full.  Everything started up and ran well.
Mark

B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity

Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
Back to Top
Lonn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Назарово,Russia
Points: 29792
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2011 at 9:25pm

I used to think Ethanol in the gas was good but in my experience you will have carb problems if the engines sits a few months also when I bought my chain saw the Stihl dealer said to try not using ethanol. I never had so much trouble with bad rotten fuel until the ethanol showed up. In the car it's fine cause it gets used nearly everyday.

-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink
I am a Russian Bot
Back to Top
Gerald J. View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2011 at 9:34pm
M is for motor method. In the motor method of testing for octane they use an engine with adjustable compression ratio. They increase the compression ratio until it begins to ping, then they mix octane (a hydrocarbon) and some other standard low octane rating hydrocarbon until the engine knocks the same. The octane rating of the fuel being tested is the amount of octane hydrocarbon needed in the standard fuel to get the same ping or knock.

I'm not sure of the Research method, its probably a chemical analysis and the two methods hardly agree. So pumps tend to show the average of the two.

Gerald J.
Back to Top
Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2011 at 9:42pm
I've been using E10 in my gas tractors with no problems. They don't get a lot of use and don't have any carb problems either. When I filled each one last summer, I did put Stabil in them.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
Back to Top
BrettPhillips View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Strasburg, VA
Points: 808
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrettPhillips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2011 at 10:04pm

The "R" stands for "Research", meaning that the Research octane number is found through chemical based lab testing.

The "M" stands for "Motor", meaning that the lab uses a special engine with variable compression that is mounted on a dynamometer to arrive at a "practical" octane number that is based on real-world knock tendency in a controlled environment.

The R + M / 2 method just takes the average of the two numbers to arrive at the number that is on the sticker at the pump.  In other countries I understand that it is common to see only the Research octane number, or RON on the pump.  Since the Research octane number is generally higher than the Motor octane number, you would probably be fine to use 87 or 89 R + M / 2 octane gas.

Back to Top
427435 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Location: SE Minnesota
Points: 18637
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 427435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2011 at 11:55pm
Originally posted by Lonn Lonn wrote:

I used to think Ethanol in the gas was good but in my experience you will have carb problems if the engines sits a few months also when I bought my chain saw the Stihl dealer said to try not using ethanol. I never had so much trouble with bad rotten fuel until the ethanol showed up. In the car it's fine cause it gets used nearly everyday.



Again, what you are struggling with is either water that was already in your fuel tanks or  old shellac being removed from your fuel system by the E10.  Clean your carburetors and drain your tanks if necessary.  As I posted, I haven't had a fuel problem in years and I have 3 vehicles, 3 air-cooled engines, and a 60' vintage McCullough chain saw that sit for months and then fire up with no issues (other than possible dead batteries).
Mark

B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity

Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
Back to Top
TedBuiskerN.IL. View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Davis, IL.
Points: 1959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TedBuiskerN.IL. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2011 at 2:26am
Thanks guys, looks like the 87 R+M/2 with 10% ethanol would be OK to use, and about 15 cents a gallon less costly here in N.IL. than the 93 octane.
This tractor may be for sale in the future.  Runs like a top, now, everything seems to work, I even got all the lights working.  Straight sheet metal, show 93xx hours on tachometer which still works.  Has a fuel issue I need to work out yet from sitting so long, line plugs occasionally.  Rear tires like new, left front OK, right front will need to be replaced before long.  Tire guy comes Tuesday to fix a small fluid leak before it ruins the rim.  Still needs a new seat, but for now a boat cushion will have to do, got bills to pay first.
Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.143 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum