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wbecker 
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 Topic: Gas tank cleaning
Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 10:06am |
Any good ideas for cleaning rust from inside a B gas tank?
Thanks, Bill B
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Allis B, IB, Low B, G, D10, JD M, 8KCAB, C152
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jaybmiller
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Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 10:16am |
Whichever way you chhose( nuts and bolts, chain,chemicals,???) be sure to rinse really really well,blow out with compressed air, rinse again, blow again, then wait a day.Do it all over again....
After that you can use one of those tank coatings if you want.
The key is preparation ! Cleanliness cannot be stressed enough.
I use a high power white LED and mirror to look inside the tank.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Coke-in-MN
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Location: Afton MN
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 10:28am |
Inhibited Muriatic Acid , HCL, works but is smelly on fumes. Sulfuric acid (battery acid) will also clean and dissolve rust, but is hard on any cloth. Use a vacuum cleaner set to blow to dry tank.
Another use for sulfuric acid is to clean and sharpen files , just soak files in it for couple hours or day and it is surprising how well old files come back to life. Clean any grease off and out first as it will speed process.
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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GA-IN-TEXAS
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: LONGVIEW,TEXAS
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 10:37am |
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KBS COATINGS IS A VERY GOOD PRODUCT,USED IT SEVERAL TIMES,ALWAYS HAD VERY GOOD LUCK WITH IT.
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Ten Seven
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 10:44am |
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I used fuel oil and marbles.
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wjohn
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 11:21am |
I used a Kreem tank liner kit, and while others seem to have problems with the liner peeling off, I haven't seen any evidence of that yet. Only 8 months but it still looks good.
I put in a couple of lengths of chain (easier to get out than individual nuts and bolts) with some water and dish soap, per the instructions. Shook it for a long time, removed the chain and drained all the junk, then dumped in the phosphoric acid and correct amount of water. Etched it overnight, then rinsed it with the Methyl Ketone and put in the tank liner compound. I did let the tank dry for over a month before putting gas in it, just to be safe. Surely overkill, but I suspect people who had problems either put gas in before the lining was completely dry, or don't properly prepare the metal.
Good luck whatever you choose to do.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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junkman
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 11:31am |
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I always figured I would borrow some of my friends ceramic media to clean one if the need arose. I think they would do a really fine job. If you have some old spark plugs, you could probably break up the ceramic and use it. Just a thought
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GA-IN-TEXAS
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 12:44pm |
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David Maddux
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 1:05pm |
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Go to" redkote.com" read how they tell you the proper way to prepare a gas tank. It will be a no fail system if you follow directions to the letter. Non of this log chain or nails and screws in the gas tank taped to the rear tractor wheel and drivin around.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 1:16pm |
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I like the battery acid method. Does the job in a few minutes. Otherwise, a few handfuls of roofing nails, sharp gravel and strap it to the rear wheel of another tractor will get the job done eventually.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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GBACBFan
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 5:42pm |
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Thank you, Dave, I'm convinced. Is the drain hole (with sediment bowl removed, obviously) large enough to drain the excess Red Kote out of the tank when you're done rolling the tank around and covering all inside surfaces?
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Rogers
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 7:33pm |
I have used brass nuts and bolts with rocks in a well washed tank and shook it. Then washed and shook some more.
I like the acid method mentioned in several posts although I have never done that.
A lawn mower with the tank attached to the wheel while turning is one I saw a while back. I think it is a good idea although I've never done it. It is a good way to shake without exertion though. You would have to be sure to think about attachment for that method though.
I have used Northern fuel tank liner, but I think Kreem or RedKote would be just as good. I think that cleaning the rust good before adding the liner is the most important thing like Jay said above.
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Think for yourself and be your own expert. Be willing to change your mind; however, willingness to change your mind doesn’t mean that you will. Blindly following any path is the pinnacle of insanity.
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Alberta Phil
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Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 9:08pm |
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I've used Red Kote on many tanks and have had no problems with it. Yes, the excess will drain out the sediment bowl port, but it takes a while. I usually coat a tank at the end of the day and then set it up over the can to let the excess drain out overnight. I cover the can and set the drain hole in the tank right on a hole cut in an old lid. That way the rest of the contents in the can is not losing it's solvent to evaporation.
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GBACBFan
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Posted: 20 Apr 2011 at 3:01pm |
That's a great tip, Phil, thank you very much.
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"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they
are genuine." - Mark Twain
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 20 Apr 2011 at 3:18pm |
most of the kits say not to return the used product back to origonal container as they start the process of curing while mixed and are put into contact with air or moisture in air.
fore metal prep for parts used in electronics (before we coated them with photo-resist for chemical milling process) we used a 20% mixture of inhibited HCL acid (20% reagent base) and water and a soak time of about 10 minutes. this was clean metal to start , any rust on metal took a while longer.
the battery acid (sulfuric acid) seems to react slower but does a good job also.
Hmm now i am wondering if a person could not clean inside of tank then use a anode and plate the inside of tank with copper or ?
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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zootownjeepguy
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Posted: 23 Apr 2011 at 10:30pm |
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The tank on my U had "vintage gas" in it when I bought it. The gas in the sediment bowl had turned into a hard tar-like substance. I drained what was once gas out of the tank and put 2 gallons of Muriatic Acid in it and let it set for a day, and sloshed it around frequently. After that was drained and rinsed with water I poured in a couple gallons of Trichloroethylene and let that soak for a couple days, sloshing frequently. I thought that did a pretty good job of cleaning the tank so i put it back on the tractor and put some gas in to run the tractor. Well, There was still some dark brown goo coming out of the tank and getting trapped in the bottom of the sediment bowl and the gas was darker too. The gas also had particles of this goo in it and it finally plugged up the carburetor and made one heck of a mess in there. Today I pulled the tank off again and filled it with another 2 gallons of muriatic acid and a 6' length of 5/16" chain. I suspended the tank from above and shook, sloshed and shook the tank some more in every possible position for almost an hour (what a workout that was. I'm feeling it now). After draining and flushing the tank with plenty of water it looked really clean inside. After putting the tank back on and filling it with gas the dark brown goo is still coming out but not as much. Now when I look inside the tank I can see small blobs of the dark brown goo on the shiny bottom of the tank.
I'm at a loss here. I have dealt with "vintage gas" many times before and have never had this problem. I know the inside of the tank had been sealed at one time. Maybe the acid has broken down the sealer and that's what the dark brown goo is??? The goo is heavier than gas and it separates in the glass bowl but you can still see particles suspended in the gas. I drained about 3 gallons of contaminated gas/goo mix out of the tank today (I'll leave that out for one of my neighbors to steal). I tried pouring some of the contaminated gas/goo through a coffee filter and that didn't work. I really need to get the tank completely cleaned and get all traces of goo out of it.
Has anyone else had this happen? Any suggestions on what to do next?
Thanks,
Rich
Edited by zootownjeepguy - 23 Apr 2011 at 10:30pm
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Rich Salvaggio
'31 Allis Chalmers U 7143
'46 Willys CJ2A Farm Jeep
'48 Caterpillar D2
Antique Garden tractors
*Other rusty old junk comes & goes without notice
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 12:36am |
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Several years ago I built a 'tumbler'... a heavy steel box that spins on bearings inclined at a 30-degree angle, driven by a gearmotor at about 30rpm... I fill it with many types of media to clean off parts... but I've cleaned many fuel tanks by removing the media, stuffing in a fuel tank, and slipping pieces of foam around it, then using a ratchet-strap over the end of the box just to keep the tank from wandering out. Then I pour in about three coffee cans full of nuts, bolts, screws, pieces of dog-chain, and about a half-can of sand. and turn it on for about an hour. I come back later and flip the tank around, run it for another hour, then re-orient it again for another hour. I then dump out all the hardware and media as I can, then vacuum out the remainder using a piece of 1" conduit duct-taped to my shop-vac hose (makes for good reach inside the tank). Then I rinse it clean with a pressure washer, Set it in my parts washer, fill it to the very top with mineral spirits, then open the petcock and let it run out... any remaining debris and moisture comes out... and I fill it a few more times (parts washer has a suction filter and sediment-excluding tank)... after I'm satisfied that it's done running the worst of the crud, I reinstall it, hook it up, and fill it full'a gas.
Every time I've used this technique, I've ended up with a fuel tank that was shiny-clean inside.
I've stayed away from tank lining goo, primarily because I've had so many that weren't prepared absolutely perfectly, and after a few years, turned into a nightmare. The only place where I would personally ever use lining goo, is if the tank was absolutely unobtanium, and if the tank had pinhole leaks that couldn't be sealed up using some other technique... but I've talked to many guys that have had more palatable experiences.
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wbecker
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Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:08am |
Rich,
I started this thread thinking I had rust in the tank. It turned out to be the old gas tar like stuff like you have.
I put a chain in it and muratic acid and shook it for a day, with little improvement. Then I put acitone in for another day, that's when I found it was not rust but the tar/goo stuff from old gas. Then I put in MEK for another day of shaking, even more of it came out. Then I tied some Scotch Bright on a stick and scrubbed the bottom with the MEK as good as I could. After all that I intalled it and put an inline filter before the carb. I think this will help. I bought some Redcoat, but have not used it as I don't want to seal in the remaining goo.
Looks like Dave has the ultimate tank cleaned!
Bill B
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Allis B, IB, Low B, G, D10, JD M, 8KCAB, C152
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zootownjeepguy
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Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:51am |
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I thought about putting a couple big inline filters in the fuel line but from what I can see there are microscopic particles of goo in the gas. These particles are getting past the screen in the sediment bowl and also the filter in the Zenith carburetor. The particles regroup inside the jets and passages in the carb and are causing trouble. I tried pouring some gas/goo through a coffee filter and that caught some of it but it really didn't help much.
I think I need to find some chemical that will dissolve the goo completely. The tank looks great inside otherwise. The trick with the 6' chain worked good (a tip from this post). We have Kalamazoo Stripping & Derusting here, a local company that acid dips parts. I would have them dip the tank but I'm afraid it may come back with pinholes or worse. I had a tank cleaned and sealed by a local radiator shop years ago and it came back with big patches from where they cut it open and the whole thing was covered with fiberglass cloth. That was okay for a 47 International truck because that tank was hidden behind the seat but I don't want my Allis tank looking like that.
I'll experiment with some goo samples and try to find something that will dissolve it. I have some trichloroethylene out in the shop, maybe Draino or toilet bowl cleaner? Any suggestions are welcome!
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Rich Salvaggio
'31 Allis Chalmers U 7143
'46 Willys CJ2A Farm Jeep
'48 Caterpillar D2
Antique Garden tractors
*Other rusty old junk comes & goes without notice
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 10:36am |
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I don't know what to call it, or exactly what it consists of, Rich, but you're right- it's awesomely strange stuff. It's somewhere between shellac, asphalt, iron ore, aluminum oxide, and tobacco spit, and I think there's some Gorilla Glue in there, too.
Everything I've dealt with, seems to only get stronger when a solvent is added. When it's really bad, but on something I can reach, I 'sample' it... try a little dab of several things, to see if any have an effect. If I find that one particular solvent is very effective on a particular flavor of gak, that's what I use to cut it all out. Typically, though, with tanks, I've found the best is tumbling it with random media, as well as a scoop of sand, or if I have it, a scoop of 'black beauty' blast media... really scrubs it clean.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 10:47am |
For the solvent , might try the carb-cleaner that is used for dipping or soaking carbs, the kind in like 2 gal bucket that has the floating cover material to prevent evaporation. Pour off the top liquid and add rest to tank then agitate.
Seems to strip most gunk from old carbs . Unsure what the mixture in the product is of solvents.
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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