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Probably a stupid idea…
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Tbone95 View Drop Down
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 12394 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Probably a stupid idea…
    Posted: 7 hours 51 minutes ago at 7:14am
I have a bolt broken off flush with the hole, in a cast iron housing. It’s a hard bolt, can’t drill it with the tools on hand but looking into that. It has blue Loctite on it.

Actually had two broken ones. I welded a bolt to the first one and it worked like a charm. I’m having a heckuva time getting the second one out. Not enough hands and access and….whatever to get something welded on strong enough.

Anyway, here’s my brain dead idea. What would happen if I cranked the current up and stuck a bolt directly into the stinger? Would save a hand. Might work, might not. What could it hurt?
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NEVER green View Drop Down
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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Points: 9249 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NEVER green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 23 minutes ago at 8:42am
  Have you tried welding a thick washer to it then a nut to the washer??   The washer gives you more access to weld.
2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040   R50       
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Points: 8931 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 16 minutes ago at 8:49am
When I have broken off bolts like that I weld directly on broken bolt and build up end till I can get a Visegrip on it. Sometimes it takes several tries after twisting off.
 Stick welder ( all I had till recently). 6013  Blob and chip.blob and chip. Heat gain will solve loctite and chipping usually helps loosen. Mostly done on Cat ex manifold studs 3/8. Nice thing about being in cast is cast don't weld well to steel so you don't have to worry about welding stud to hole.
If you don't have room to work.....you have some decisions to make
As far as using a bolt vs a weld rod...think you're going to find huge arc splatter with no control over puddle. Ever had a rod missing flux? Same result


Edited by SteveM C/IL - 6 hours 4 minutes ago at 9:01am
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You say you 'welded a bolt' to it. Did you actually weld a 'bolt' to it? That would be tricky. More commonly you weld a nut to it - welding through the middle. I'd give that a try if you haven't yet. Lots of heat: You need good penetration into that hardened bolt for the first second or two of welding. Everything after that is just building up and not adding any more penetration into the original bolt, and thus not really helping too much.

I have better luck using MIG with it really cranked up and higher gas flow to avoid porosity. When using stick on such a small, short, quick weld, it's pretty much impossible to get the flux fully out and avoid any porosity. With such a small area, you need the weld to be as perfect as possible.

Sounds like loc-tite 243 or equivalent on there. Once welded and cooled, make sure you use a torch to heat the surrounding area uber hot before trying to spin it out.


Edited by DanielW - 5 hours 48 minutes ago at 9:17am
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AC7060IL View Drop Down
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Points: 3649 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 49 minutes ago at 9:16am
Tbone95, your bolt as electrode will probably fail from being too porous of a weld (many tiny holes)? The bolt has no flux coating to gas shield & produce a good solid weldment. Probably best to keep trying, using a thinner welding rod(6013,etc?). Maybe go to harborFreight & buy thinnest weld rods? Then without any flat washer, nut, bolt, etc,,, USING ONLY WELDING ROD, weld onto broken bolt to HEAT IT & BUILD IT UP.. If build up is successful, then try welding flat washer, nut to it for easier removal.
Failed welding rod attempts are kinda good because each Consecutive heat treatment is your friend to loosen corroded threads of broken bolt.
Yes naked bolt weldings are failed attempt too, but it’s welds are not good ones.

Edited by AC7060IL - 5 hours 46 minutes ago at 9:19am
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Tbone95 View Drop Down
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Points: 12394 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 52 minutes ago at 10:13am
Yes I actually welded a bolt to it. My thought just went there. Worked once!

A nut sounds like a good idea. The washer, maybe, though not a large OD so might be tricky to find one that would work.

Doesn’t help that my helmet sucks.

I’ll keep hacking at it. Thanks for talking me out of the bolt electrode idea!
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As others have said a failed attempt is just another heat cycle to help break the loc-tight and or rust holding the broken bolt.

The down side of the arc weld is cleaning the slag out from the failed weld before the next attempt.

I think the real help of starting with a flat washer is the added heating on the broken bolt. It is one welding cycle to fill the flat washer. Clean slag, then weld a nut on. Even though the nut will be full of slag and not a real good weld. Fill the nut full of weld, even more heat sinking down the broken bolt.  Another thing is have patients after the weld. At the least let it cool until you can keep your hand on it.  Even better go work on something else for several hours.

Taking cast iron radiator tanks apart I have weld more than a 1/2 dozen nuts on some. But I have never had one that did not come out on the 6 or so radiators I have taken apart. 
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Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

... What would happen if I cranked the current up and stuck a bolt directly into the stinger? Would save a hand. Might work, might not. What could it hurt?
I wouldn't be afraid to try it.

You would probably need to be able to shut the welder off with the stinger still holding the bolt at the exact moment of completing the weld.



Edited by Les Kerf - 3 hours 55 minutes ago at 11:10am
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No advice on the bolt, but if your helmet sucks replace it. Years ago I bought a helmet with the larger window and auto dark, it made a huge difference for me. The one I have now has variable darkness and a grinder setting. Having one less thing to fight with may be the difference between getting the bolt out and making a bigger problem.

Ted
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Points: 12394 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 8 minutes ago at 11:57am
Originally posted by TedN TedN wrote:

No advice on the bolt, but if your helmet sucks replace it. Years ago I bought a helmet with the larger window and auto dark, it made a huge difference for me. The one I have now has variable darkness and a grinder setting. Having one less thing to fight with may be the difference between getting the bolt out and making a bigger problem.

Ted

Making a stop after work today!
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Tbone95 View Drop Down
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
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Originally posted by Ray54 Ray54 wrote:

As others have said a failed attempt is just another heat cycle to help break the loc-tight and or rust holding the broken bolt.

The down side of the arc weld is cleaning the slag out from the failed weld before the next attempt.

I think the real help of starting with a flat washer is the added heating on the broken bolt. It is one welding cycle to fill the flat washer. Clean slag, then weld a nut on. Even though the nut will be full of slag and not a real good weld. Fill the nut full of weld, even more heat sinking down the broken bolt.  Another thing is have patients after the weld. At the least let it cool until you can keep your hand on it.  Even better go work on something else for several hours.

Taking cast iron radiator tanks apart I have weld more than a 1/2 dozen nuts on some. But I have never had one that did not come out on the 6 or so radiators I have taken apart. 
good advice to be patient! One time I think I had a pretty good tack, probably had potential to work, I rushed and actually twisted the head off the bolt I welded on! D’oh!!
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Points: 90298 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 31 minutes ago at 12:34pm
putting the bolt in the stinger is not going to work.. trying to weld a bolt to the broken bolt is not a good idea ... just lay a thick washer over the broken stud and weld in a circle to attach it... Stick welder will do fine.... if you cant grab the washer with vice grips or channel locks, then weld a nut on top of the washer ... yes.. HEAT is your friend..

Edited by steve(ill) - 2 hours 30 minutes ago at 12:35pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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