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Allis 7045 - Hydraulic Shenanigans |
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DanielW
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Joined: 19 Sep 2022 Location: Ontario Points: 245 |
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Topic: Allis 7045 - Hydraulic ShenanigansPosted: 6 hours 15 minutes ago at 11:40am |
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Hi folks,
A while ago I posted about a 7045 that had (according to seller) some strange hydraulic issues His descriptions didn't add up (no power steering, diff lock stuck on, PTO working). I decided (for a while) to pass on looking at it, as I don't need another project. More recently, he dropped the price (pretty much to scrap price), and I noted the rubber was good. Rears were the same as my White, fronts were the same as my combine - both which I desperately need new rubber for. So I decided to grab it, give it a quick once-over to see if I could get it functional, and if not I'd peel the rubber off, possibly pull and sell the 426 (which runs like a top), and scrap the rest. I'll still probably do this, and I'd still come out financially ahead. But I thought I'd spend at least a little time seeing if I can fix the hydraulic issues first. Thus far I've pulled and replaced both sump filters. Both are now correct length, and I've verified the trap door is opening in the LH one and filling the sump housing. Old LH one wasn't stock and a little short, so I was hoping this might be my problem (no such luck). Pulled apart and cleaned divider/priority valve on the gear pump. The spool was stuck, but it was stuck in the up (priority/steering) position, so it really should still have had steering. Of course I left my hydraulic test box with everything I need to properly analyze pressures at my other farm, but to test flow at the gear pump I opened the test port, put a bucket under there, and fired it up for a few seconds - just to make sure I had flow and the gear pump was working. Absolutely nothing at all. No flow, and pretty much no bypassing when shut down (maybe 1 drop every 20 seconds). This makes me think something is up with the gear pump drive - stripped drive splines were my first thought (assuming it has a splined connection between the trans and gear pump - I haven't dug into the parts books to know for sure). Clutch works (PD trans) and drives fine straight forward and back, so it seems the Geroter pump is working. The flamdoozler for me, however, is that the brakes work reasonably well. Which I 'think' means the piston pump is working 9but I could be wrong?). I understand that in normal operation, the piston pump is fed by the gear pump return from the power steering, but if this flow isn't sufficient it will draw from the surge cavity in the rear-end sump. which may be what's happening? Which has me flummoxed as to how the piston pump might be working and the gear pump not. But maybe the brake valves are such that the brakes can be worked (in some capacity) with no pressure from the pump - using just the pedal cylinders instead to have at least some pressure? Again: I haven't dug into the parts books to know for sure if this is how they're set up, and I foolishly left my service manual in my other truck at the other farm, so I don't have a schematic to look at. Wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what the issue might be? Still thinking a broken/sheared shaft between the tranny Geroter pump and the gear pump is a likely culprit? In which case I'm guessing this tractor is pretty much scrap (I doubt new shafts are readily available? And if they are, a new shaft is probably more than I paid for the tractor). Next time I'm back there I'll check flow & pressures at the remotes - something I should have done before, but I only spent a little time at it and didn't have my hydraulic kit with me. Any ideas greatly appreciated.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22121 |
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Posted: 5 hours 16 minutes ago at 12:39pm |
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Brakes will work fine, just not power assist. Takes more effort from your leg, but as long as there is oil in the system (should be) they still work unlike some competitive tractors. Sounds like a gear pump issue to me. When I was much younger I could have the pump out and on the bench and tore apart in a couple of hours.
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DanielW
Silver Level
Joined: 19 Sep 2022 Location: Ontario Points: 245 |
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Posted: 2 hours 42 minutes ago at 3:13pm |
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Thanks Doc. As usual, your diagnosis is correct. I had some time between selling loads of hay, so I pulled the intake pipe off the gear pump with the idea of seeing how well fluid was flowing through the filter housing, and looking in the pump with my inspection camera. I found this inside the intake pipe: A quarter of a pump gear. I assumed because it has a smooth/polished bore that it was from the idler gear (the parts book seems to show the shaft/drive gear as one unit), but from what I saw through the inspection camera, it looks like it might be from the drive gear? Is the drive gear is keyed onto the drive shaft? Hard for me to tell: My video wasn't great. Hard to get the camera up in there to see properly. I'll maybe upload a video when I can. If I'm right and the shaft/drive gear are pooched (I'm guessing if it is keyed on there, the keyway on the shaft is also pooched), would you just replace the shaft/drive-gear and go from there? The pump looks easy to access and tear down. I told myself if this was a hard fix that I'd just pull the rubber off and scrap the rest. But I just can't help trying to get another old Allis going again. And from the (very little) time I've spent in it, I can already tell I like the cab and control layout a thousand times more than our White. I don't want to put too much money into a tractor I got for scrap price, but if I could get this going with a reasonable amount of time/money I'd happily do it. One (stupid?) idea I had if I can't find parts (or if parts
cost as much as I paid for the tractor) was to mount a 10 GPM belt-drive pump
up front (probably where the AC compressor is, as I don't think the AC works).
Run a suction line from the filter housing outlet to the inlet of the new pump,
then from the new pump outlet to the old gear pump inlet. Not ideal, as the new
pump would be above the fluid level. But with a good check-valve to prevent
drain-back and for the minimal amount of time I'd use this per year, it may be
worth considering? I'd likely have to pull the guts out of the old gear-pump to
allow free-flow through. Edited by DanielW - 2 hours 40 minutes ago at 3:15pm |
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DanielW
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Joined: 19 Sep 2022 Location: Ontario Points: 245 |
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Posted: 2 hours 41 minutes ago at 3:14pm |
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(picture didn't upload with last post)
Edited by DanielW - 2 hours 41 minutes ago at 3:14pm |
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DanielW
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Joined: 19 Sep 2022 Location: Ontario Points: 245 |
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Posted: 2 hours 32 minutes ago at 3:23pm |
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I should also have added to my last post: I had to move it a little more out of the way today. Still didn't have any hydraulic test equipment, but the tree point works, there's flow to the remotes, and the brakes definitely feel power-assisted, so I think the piston pump is working(ish)
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22121 |
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Posted: 1 hour 2 minutes ago at 4:53pm |
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Find a complete dual pump assembly out of a salvage yard tractor and make a good one out of two. A black tractor pump is better than a maroon, but anything is better than what you have.
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