| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
DonDittmar 
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2505
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(1)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: 2025 Ice Storm-Generator question
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 7:09am |
Well, survived the 2025 ice storm. I was 10 days without power at my house, my mom was 15 days out. Got lots of cleanup work to do- I have taken 5 loads out so far and I am still not done. Local Co-Ops say 175 Million worth of damage.
So with all this ice storm talk and being out of power for so long, we are looking at a generator for the house. Now before we go any further, I understand the need for a transfer switch so you can disconnect from the grid and not back feed the line and kill someone-and I would never tackle this project myself-id hire it done,but for curiosity sake I have to ask. My question is most generators have electrical sockets on them for plugging in extension cords-how are they connecting this to the household breaker box?? In talking it out with the family, these are the circuits I want to run on the generator: Kitchen outlet for fridge and range. (gas range but cant use oven without power) Basement outlet for sump pump, furnace (natural gas forced air), and water heater(upgrading to natural gas on demand water heater) Bathroom outlet for washer and drier (upgrading drier to natural gas) and the drier isnt really a must but would be nice. 1 Living room outlet for TV and WIFI( WIFI not a must but TV is nice to get emergency reports.
We are on city water so no well and we never lost water
Edited by DonDittmar - 16 Apr 2025 at 7:23am
|
|
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
thendrix
Orange Level
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: Fairmount GA
Points: 5007
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 7:42am |
|
My mama and my father in law both have Generac whole house generators that run on propane. I think they're 22Kw(?). It's the ones that Home Depot sells. It's more expensive then the gas generators that run with drop cords but if the power goes out you wait about 5 seconds, it cranks, transfer switch flips, full power is back on. These are about 4 or 5 years old and both say they're well worth it.
|
|
"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 85407
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 8:06am |
Don, the 120 v electrical plugs on the generator are for extension cords to run individual equip.. Plug into the light string, the refrigerator, radio, saw, microwave, etc...
There is a 240v 4 wire plug that you would plug into the HOUSE ELECTRICAL BOX if you want to power a CIRCUIT in the house... On stationary systems the is HARD WIRED into a throw switch and then the house breaker box.... If you have a PORTABLE unit that you also use for other things, you would have a 50 amp RV plug or welding plug, etc that you plug into and send the gen power backward to the breaker box... you still need to incorporate some type of kill switch for the Power company feed into your box.
IF you really dont want to power EVERYTHING, you just go the Main Breaker Box and switch off half of the breakers that are not needed..
Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Apr 2025 at 8:16am
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 85407
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 8:13am |
Stop by LOWES or MENARDS and look at a Portable Generator... You will see the 120v plugs AND a 240v plug or two.... like this.... If you have a LARGER GENERATOR that is suppose to be STATIONARY, it will have its own breaker box with hard wire 240v outlet.
I use this PORTABLE type so i can load it up in the truck and use for other purpose around the farm......the nice thing about the STATIONARY units is it can be plumbed into you Nat Gas line and run off that so you dont need to continuously add gasoline.. but they normally cost more..
Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Apr 2025 at 8:20am
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 85407
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 8:26am |
Stationary Unit running on Nat Gas..
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
DonDittmar
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2505
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 9:09am |
So the 240V plug could be wired into my home box through a kill switch to power say the furnace and sump pump(the 2 MUSTS on the list). I would then go in my box and switch off all breakers EXCEPT the furnace and sump pump circuits. I could then use the regular plugs to run a drop cord and power say the TV and fridge.
Id like to do the Whole house stationary thing, but thats out of my price range. Im looking in the neighborhood of 1300.00
Sad thing is ill go through all of this and probably never need it, however with a portable generator, there is a chance id use it for other things besides power outages. |
|
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4886
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 12:10pm |
A lot of us, especially in emergency situations have hooked a generator to a 240 volt circuit in our electrical panel, shut off the main breaker and "back fed" the panel to power up the whole house. While that works, it is dangerous. If someone forgets to shut off the main breaker, the generator will feed through the transformer and it would be very easy to electrocute anyone near downed power lines.
To install the (first) transfer switch that transfers only certain circuits (which I am thinking would be the best for you, you simply pick which circuits you want to power up with the generator in your panel. Shut the breakers off and install the transfer switch between the breaker and the existing wire going into the breaker. Each circuit has a switch where it can be powered by regular electric service or generator. There is no way it can back feed.
Transfer switches are a lot safer way to do it!
Edited by WF owner - 16 Apr 2025 at 12:29pm
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4886
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 12:18pm |
 thendrix wrote:
My mama and my father in law both have Generac whole house generators that run on propane. I think they're 22Kw(?). It's the ones that Home Depot sells. It's more expensive then the gas generators that run with drop cords but if the power goes out you wait about 5 seconds, it cranks, transfer switch flips, full power is back on. These are about 4 or 5 years old and both say they're well worth it. |
A friend had a Generac standby generator, and it failed to start periodically as it was supposed to. When the company came to see what was wrong, they said the generator engine had a plastic cam gear that had failed. He said all their failures had been in regular scheduled cold weather starts. Repairs were going to be more than the generator was worth.
The dealer told him that they had quit handling Generac because of other failures. He said they had switched to Kohler (which are more money).
Just something to keep in mind if you are thinking of buying.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 85407
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 12:33pm |
yes Don.... what you would need is a THROW OVER TRANSFER SWITCH on the power line coming into your Main breaker box.. The BREAKER BOX could be connect to the Power Companay, or it could be connected to a 50 amp RV plug..... You then use a heavy extension cord to connect your Portable Generator to the RV plug.... Generator can set outside the garage and you could have the RV plug in the house or basement, or where ever.. Then a 20 -30 ft cord to connect them... This is basically what i have..... and then your ENTIRE HOUSE is powered.. If you dont want the Air Conditioner, Electric Dryer, welder, etc to "kick on" then throw that breaker off.... You would not need the small extension cords to the frig and lights.. that would be powered from the Breaker box as normall..... but you COULD plug a cord into the 120v plug on the generator if you wanted to use an extra sump pump, skill saw, drill... etc..
Something like this... you may or may not have a Disconect switch out on the power pole that feeds into your house breaker boxx..( common in Rural areas, not city).
Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Apr 2025 at 12:44pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Lars(wi)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Permian Basin
Points: 7674
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 1:31pm |
|
Get on the internet, do a search. There are hours upon hours of videos of every configuration known, wiring a generator to houses, shops, garages, etc. Some use portable generators, permanent and hard wired, it’s almost endless the possibilities.
|
|
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
|
|
DonDittmar
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2505
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 2:10pm |
Thanks for the input guys-you answered my questions.
This is along the lines of the generator I was thinking
|
|
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 85407
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 3:54pm |
|
9500 WATTS is about 80 amps on a 120 v circuit... That should power several different circuits in your Breaker Box... good size generator..
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
thendrix
Orange Level
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: Fairmount GA
Points: 5007
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 5:27pm |
WF owner wrote:
thendrix wrote:
My mama and my father in law both have Generac whole house generators that run on propane. I think they're 22Kw(?). It's the ones that Home Depot sells. It's more expensive then the gas generators that run with drop cords but if the power goes out you wait about 5 seconds, it cranks, transfer switch flips, full power is back on. These are about 4 or 5 years old and both say they're well worth it. |
A friend had a Generac standby generator, and it failed to start periodically as it was supposed to. When the company came to see what was wrong, they said the generator engine had a plastic cam gear that had failed. He said all their failures had been in regular scheduled cold weather starts. Repairs were going to be more than the generator was worth.
The dealer told him that they had quit handling Generac because of other failures. He said they had switched to Kohler (which are more money).
Just something to keep in mind if you are thinking of buying. |
Thanks for the heads up. I am curious, if it failed periodically, how did it run periodically with a broken cam gear? Wouldn't this keep the valves from operating? Not trying to argue, just curious.
|
|
"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4886
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 5:59pm |
They are set to start periodically (ours at court runs every Tuesday at 2 PM). He realized it wasn't starting as scheduled. He tried to start it manually with no luck, so he called the dealer. They gave him the bad news.
After doing some research today, I am thinking it was the oil pump gear that was plastic (not the cam gear).
|
|
HudCo
Orange Level
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Location: Plymouth Utah
Points: 3762
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Apr 2025 at 8:19pm |
|
i am a generac dealer and have sold many standbys and portables since 2009 and have never had any camgear or oilpump gear problems we are also a honda outdoor power equipment dealer and i will tell you they all start falling apart at the same amount of hours
|
|
thendrix
Orange Level
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: Fairmount GA
Points: 5007
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 8:22am |
Hey Don, if you want a generator that will power EVERYTHING, we just replaced one of our farm generators and the old one is for sale! 200Kw Onan with a 400hp Cummins. You wouldn't sleep but you'd power the neighborhood 
|
|
"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 85407
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 8:30am |
Tyler... how is the FUEL EFFICIENCY on that unit ?.. About 30 gallons an hour ?  
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Tbone95
Orange Level Access
Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 11962
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 10:11am |
|
My sister has a Generac standby system. She’s had a few pretty stupid little problems with it. The dumbest one I remember was during a lengthy outage it quit. The reason? The battery was dead. Turns out having the generator charge itself was an option! Looked kinda silly to have the generator running with an extension cord running to it with a battery charger connected! Guess they have it fixed right now.
|
|
thendrix
Orange Level
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: Fairmount GA
Points: 5007
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 2:23pm |
|
|
|
"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
|
|
tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Jeromesville, O
Points: 10601
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 2:33pm |
|
I have had a Generac for a good 10 years and the only problem I had was when I changed the battery I left the positive cable touch the case and it urnt the circut board up, that's all I have had to do is replace battery ervery so often and chnge the oil once a year.
|
|
Riprock
Bronze Level Access
Joined: 13 Feb 2021
Location: Tennessee
Points: 31
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 2:36pm |
I did this and installed a 10 circuit transfer switch. All switching is done in the transfer switch. It lets you switch each circuit from line to generator power and back. you don't have to turn off your main breaker. You have to use 2 circuit spaces for any 240 volt loads. It also has meters so you can monitor the load on the generator.
|
|
Riprock
Bronze Level Access
Joined: 13 Feb 2021
Location: Tennessee
Points: 31
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 2:39pm |
Outside you just have a Receptacle to plug in the generator cord.
The cover is screwed down in the picture. 
Edited by Riprock - 17 Apr 2025 at 2:49pm
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level
Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4886
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 3:07pm |
Riprock,
Are there any 240 volt circuits or just 120 volt?
|
|
Riprock
Bronze Level Access
Joined: 13 Feb 2021
Location: Tennessee
Points: 31
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 4:50pm |
Both, you have to use 2 circuits for 240, 1 for 120. The bottom 2 circuit switches on mine are for an electric water heater so the handles are tied together. Similar to how a 2 pole breaker is. The transfer switch comes prewired with a length of flexible conduit, it just wouldn't work for my set-up so I used pvc instead.
Since mine is 10 circuits it has 20 wires (10 pairs) coming out of the transfer switch, they're color coded and marked. For each circuit you want to power off the generator you remove the circuit wire from the breaker in your exsisting panel, wirenut that to 1 of the paired wires and place the other paired wire on the breaker.
That way all switching is done at the transfer switch and since you don't turn the main off when your power comes back on you'll know it by leaving a light on not powered by the generator.
Edited by Riprock - 17 Apr 2025 at 5:06pm
|
|
Tbone95
Orange Level Access
Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 11962
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 5:43pm |
|
Back to the ice storm for a minute, I read today 3 million acres of forest decimated, 1 million of which are State Forest. Don’t know if anyone has heard of Hartwick Pines or not but it was a majestic place! Heard it was hit hard and closed to the public. $175 million in damages. This area of Michigan for the most part is sparsely populated or would have been much higher dollar total.
|
|
DonDittmar
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2505
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 at 6:18am |
|
|
|
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
|
|
DonDittmar
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2505
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 at 6:21am |
Tbone95 wrote:
Back to the ice storm for a minute, I read today 3 million acres of forest decimated, 1 million of which are State Forest. Don’t know if anyone has heard of Hartwick Pines or not but it was a majestic place! Heard it was hit hard and closed to the public. $175 million in damages. This area of Michigan for the most part is sparsely populated or would have been much higher dollar total. |
The rest area just north of Gaylord on I175 (southbound lane) was surrounded by a nice hardwoods......its now a forest of sticks. Tops broke off every tree
Edited by DonDittmar - 18 Apr 2025 at 6:23am
|
|
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
|
|
DonDittmar
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2505
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 at 6:28am |
Riprock wrote:
Both, you have to use 2 circuits for 240, 1 for 120. The bottom 2 circuit switches on mine are for an electric water heater so the handles are tied together. Similar to how a 2 pole breaker is. The transfer switch comes prewired with a length of flexible conduit, it just wouldn't work for my set-up so I used pvc instead.
Since mine is 10 circuits it has 20 wires (10 pairs) coming out of the transfer switch, they're color coded and marked. For each circuit you want to power off the generator you remove the circuit wire from the breaker in your exsisting panel, wirenut that to 1 of the paired wires and place the other paired wire on the breaker.
That way all switching is done at the transfer switch and since you don't turn the main off when your power comes back on you'll know it by leaving a light on not powered by the generator.
Where did you get that setup? I wont have any 240V-all mine would be 110-biggest draw would be the furnace blower and sump pump
|
|
|
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
|
|
Tbone95
Orange Level Access
Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 11962
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 at 6:44am |
DonDittmar wrote:
Tbone95 wrote:
Back to the ice storm for a minute, I read today 3 million acres of forest decimated, 1 million of which are State Forest. Don’t know if anyone has heard of Hartwick Pines or not but it was a majestic place! Heard it was hit hard and closed to the public. $175 million in damages. This area of Michigan for the most part is sparsely populated or would have been much higher dollar total. |
The rest area just north of Gaylord on I175 (southbound lane) was surrounded by a nice hardwoods......its now a forest of sticks. Tops broke off every tree
|
I know that one well. Yes, is/was a beautiful area.
|
|
klinemar
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Michigan
Points: 8044
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 at 7:50am |
|
My Wife and I took our Kid's to Hartwick Pines on weekend vacations when I could get away from milking Cows. Sad to hear of the damage across Northern Michigan. Many years will pass before some areas recover. Some may never!
|
|
