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Macon Rounds 
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 Topic: Allis ingenuity ???
Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 6:55am |
Many people have thought of this but, Only an Allis chalmers guy would do this.... IMPRESSIVE !!! Practical... Legal ????????? Definitely an eye catcher . 
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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate
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WF owner
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 7:07am |
I'm thinking DOT wouldn't like that setup!!!
He needs to invest in a bigger, safe trailer. I put three tractors (occasionally four) on my gooseneck with no problems and DOT doesn't bat an eye.
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 7:17am |
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Well it doesn't look practical to me
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Macon Rounds
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 7:44am |
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I have seen several trailer sales places do something like this with empty trailers but never with loaded trailers...
Balls of steel and an expert on weight and balance still thinking this is a jack knife in the making...
I am still IMPRESSED !!!
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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:03am |
Just checked, LEGAL in Ontario ( pickup, <75', <4600Kgs ,black plates) ! Looks like rear trailer has hydraulic(inertia ?) brakes, assume front has electric. Provided it's loaded right, no different than a 'B-train'.....
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DrAllis
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:23am |
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I probably should clear some things up for the nay-sayers. Legal in the state I reside in. Been used this way since 2016. Electric brakes on all six wheels. Each trailer can be used by itself or as a twin configuration. Ramps to the 2-wheel trailer span between the trailers for easy loading/unloading. Ramps are carried in the pickup box for weight on the truck. Rear trailer I built in 1997. Front trailer was built in 2016 with this possible configuration in mind. Both trailers have tor-flex axles. I used the front trailer more this summer than the rear, as I don't have the WD puller anymore. Front trailer is for narrow front end tractors only. The rig pulls very nice. Each trailer has marked chains so the load is ALWAYS where it belongs. After the first summers use, I moved the axle rearward 4 inches on the front trailer. I was able to offset this during the first summers use by adding 200 lbs more of front suitcase weights to get things where I wanted them. Yes. I can back the twin set-up into a parking spot if I have to. I try to avoid doing that, but I can do it.
Edited by DrAllis - 06 Dec 2024 at 8:31am
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Macon Rounds
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:28am |
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I should have known it was yours Doc.
IMPRESSIVE !!!
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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate
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DrAllis
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:33am |
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Forgot to mention the truck is an F-150 !!
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Mikez
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:33am |
Dr did I read that right and the front trailer is built by you. When first seen picture, was thinking that I never seen one like that before
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:39am |
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Im sure Dr has it covered..... i would be concerned about the BALL and HITCH on the truck as you have basically 10K of weight behind it... Some ball / hitches are rated for 5-6K..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DanielW
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:46am |
 jaybmiller wrote:
Just checked, LEGAL in Ontario ( pickup, <75', <4600Kgs ,black plates) ! Looks like rear trailer has hydraulic(inertia ?) brakes, assume front has electric. Provided it's loaded right, no different than a 'B-train'.....
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Only legal for in Ontario for registered commercial vehicles (and if the driver has a CVOR). And the MTO officers are always a little confused as to whether a pickup with a GVWR of over 20k is 'commercial' or not. They're sometimes happy to ticket you for driving an F250 past a weigh station without pulling in, even if it's registered for personal use only and has no load or trailer. But other times you'll be pulling a float with the same F250 and you'll pull into a weight station to do your due diligence, and they'll get angry and ask what the heck you're doing pulling in. Driving in Ontario has so many trivial laws, loopholes, regulations, and counter-regulations that even the MTO can't keep them straight. One page on the MTO website lists double trailers as legal and mentions nothing about commercial permits being required. Another link to the highway traffic act lists it as legal for motorhomes (which are NOT registered as commercial vehicles in Ontario). And yet another link on the MTO website says it's illegal to tow any double trailer setup unless it's a commercial vehicle. A trifle irksome for the common man to figure out.
Edited by DanielW - 06 Dec 2024 at 8:59am
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Ted J
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:54am |
Dan, that is just CRAZY!!
Dr....NICE!! I imagine it is just like backing a hay wagon??
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19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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HudCo
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 9:01am |
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looks like somthing i might try. so all i have to say is, just gitt'er dun
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DrAllis
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 9:04am |
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2 5/16" ball on the bumper, WITH brackets joining the receiver hitch frame to the bumper underneath the ball, so both are pulling and supporting the ball. Both trailers are homemade. The big advantage of the front trailer design is no one wants to borrow it for anything. In my state, this is considered recreational/personal and not commercial. I have never once been pulled over in 8 years by anyone...county, city or state.
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HudCo
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 9:11am |
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dr., you are right about that front trailer i have a neghbor that set his axles all the way to the very back he claims he can haul more, his truck is allways doing a wheelei down the road, but no one borrows his trailers
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ekjdm14
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 11:27am |
Doc. That is truly impressive & very much a contraption after my own heart.
Don't think we'd get away with something like that over here in the people's republic of England, otherwise I'd be tempted just to see if my old 1.9D Citroen would pull two at once!
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Macon Rounds
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Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 12:57pm |
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Ford 150 ????
I belive Ford could use this rig in an advertisement !!!!
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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate
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AaronSEIA
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Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 4:58am |
DrAllis wrote:
I probably should clear some things up for the nay-sayers. Legal in the state I reside in. |
You sure it's legal? I thought to pull doubles the first one had to be a 5th wheel/gooseneck? AaronSEIA
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Kenny L.
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Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 7:15am |
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I've help Dr. unload and load them trailer and all I can say is when he builds something it's build with a lot of thought for safety and usable.
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 10:16am |
 Here's another shot. I was unaware of how the setup worked.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 11:28am |
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My late Father-in-law frequently pulled a small camp trailer plus his 16' fishing boat behind a 1967 F-150 here in Idaho for many years; he also went into Montana as well. He had a CDL and did all of the research as to legalities, he never was hassled by the police for this setup.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 8:03am |
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The Iowa DOT book reads differently than in 2016. But, still allows two towed trailers behind one truck/pulling vehicle. As long as total overall length is under a certain amount, all is good. THREE towed trailers are not allowed and that is in the very first paragraph.
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Oldwrench
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 8:04am |
Backing up a setup like that for any distance must be quite the skill set! 
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 8:33am |
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Auto trans is a MUST !! lots of back and forth sometimes.......
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 8:14pm |
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DrAllis, that is a cool rig. With good functioning trailer axle brakes, in most cases if they were set at high activation, they’d anchor the f150 during hard braking. So then there is minimal Jack knifing potential. I’m guessing it’s loaded GVWR (17.700lbs ?) as follows:
F150~6200lbs,
One-Seventy~5600lbs,
Front trailer~500lbs,
WD45~4000lbs,
Rear trailer~1200lbs
How far off am I? Kinda thinking you’ve also installed a Jake brake on your f150 ? What year / engine is your f150?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 9:52pm |
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One-Seventy at 5400 lbs. Front trailer is 1700 lbs. WD-45 is 3600 lbs. Rear trailer is 1600 lbs with an aluminum deck plate floor. With front trailer ramps in the truck the F-150 should be 6250 lbs depending on fuel tank fill.
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Straanger
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Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 5:55pm |
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The state of Michigan requires a doubles endorsement. I know other states don’t. Just need to know the laws for the states you’re driving in.
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Ed (Ont)
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Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 8:30pm |
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Curious about a Jake brake on f150?? Some sort of exhaust brake maybe?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 6:01am |
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Nope. None.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 7:08am |
There's two visually imposing things that get peoples' hackles up necessarily:
First is that there's two trailers. Not a complicated or difficult deal. Backing up can be a challenge, but the key to ANY trailer backing, is having the proper proportions of distance between the tow vehicle's hitch to centerline, and the first trailer's hitch to center of axles. If the tow axle distance is extremely short (or directly on) the tow vehicle's centerline, the tow vehicle's angle can be changed significantly with no impact on trailer vector, but if there's a long distance between, the swing of the tow vehicle's hitch WILL cause significant change in trailer vector. Having an extremely short trailer 'toungue' length will make it nearly impossible to back up without significant adjustment.
once that first trailer backs well, then the same applies to the second trailer-to-first trailer relationship. To back it, all you do, is focus on where the REAR trailer's hitch ball is going, and steer the FRONT to direct the rear... it's not that difficult if that front trailer's proportions are correct.
The second visually-imposing circumstance, is that they're TRACTORS... they're tall, and wide, and look ghastly heavy... but they're not. When there's no ballast in the tires, no extra iron, they're actually pretty light. I went to shuffle my WD up to the front shop last night with my little Kubota BX1800, it picked the nose of my WD right up and pushed it like a wheelbarrow.
As Doc's numbers show, it really isn't a heavy load. Those two trailers, overlapped (nose to nose) on a tandem axle trailer would be no different in most any other circumstance, just a heavier trailer to carry both at once, and probably not as easily balanced.
His front trailer is the special one... a single axle, looks to be 8 bolt, that's usually 7000lb capacity. 10% rule means the hitch would be carrying 700lbs, which for the F150, is entirely reasonable... it's a Class 4 2" receiver, good for 1200lb tongue weight and 12,000 towed capacity. He's at 12,300 gross towed... but 700 of that is on his hitch ball, not the trailing axles.
The front tractor is 5400+1700 for 7100lbs, but again, 700 on the tongue means 6400lbs on the 7500lb axle.
Now add the rear trailer, that's 1600+3600 for 5200lbs, but 520 of THAT is on the tongue to the FIRST trailed, so add 520 th the 6400lbs there, and that makes the front towed unit 6920.
The loading here is impeccable. It'll tow wonderfully, and having brakes on every axle means it's slow just fine. The F150 will have to work to climb and bring it up to speed, but will have no problem keeping it under control. ;-)
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