This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


1941 B project...

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
ekjdm14 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 20 Aug 2024
Location: Manchester UK
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1941 B project...
    Posted: 25 Aug 2024 at 4:25pm
Further to my original post here-: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/new-member-first-time-allis-b-owner_topic202799.html I thought I'd best start a new thread in the Farm equipment forum to follow on seeing as that has developed from an introduction into progress/ideas to get her up & working again (And maybe even tidy her up a hair one day!)

Not a huge amount to this update, although I've got the bottom end back together now & given the carb a once over. Apart from some cobwebs & bits of seed it was remarkably clean inside and from the look of the brass parts I'd say it's never seen ethanol in it's life which would add weight to my theory that it was stripped and the engine rebuild fudged a lot of years ago.

In other news, the fellow I bought her from may have located the head bolts and rocker assembly which would be a huge bonus so I don't have to fiddlefart around modifying the Ford parts I have dug out. On the magneto front, I'm not so hopeful of getting the original unit (and if I did, of it being serviceable) so with regards to that I may modify a distributor and go with battery ignition. The block has been tapped to accept a generator bracket so at least I can keep it charged easily. Even though I have no plan to fit an electric starter currently (pun intended) it'd be nice to have a reliable fat spark & some lights for winter time.

Anyhoos, will post any other findings or queries that arise as I get to them. Oh boy, there will be some when I get to the water pump and brakes believe me on that!

Cheers, Dan


Edited by ekjdm14 - 25 Aug 2024 at 4:26pm
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
steve(ill) View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81254
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2024 at 4:32pm
for the distributor, there are two types of drives... One goes all the way into the timing gear area and is for the "normal" distributor .... The second time is a distributor that has a short shaft and two lugs on the end that LOOKS like the end of the mag.. and plugs into the MAG timing gear  / governor shaft.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
Back to Top
ekjdm14 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 20 Aug 2024
Location: Manchester UK
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2024 at 4:50pm
Thanks, I wasn't aware there was a unit that would be essentially a bolt-in. As previously mentioned my neck is a beautiful shade of magenta & I have a 4 cylinder Ford car unit on hand which I may modify to fit (remove vacuum advance, modify advance stops as needed, shorten the shaft/make a coupler that will engage the governor shaft & a bracket to clamp it in place.

I will however look into the "correct" unit as an option, you wouldn't happen to know a part number for that would you?

Cheers, Dan
Back to Top
ekjdm14 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 20 Aug 2024
Location: Manchester UK
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2024 at 9:59am
Quite a big day for the B today. Wasn't feeling great with some sort of stomach bug so elected to sweat it out by lifting the rear end up level, "installing" the right rear wheel (don't have a spline nut for that side, tube is shot & splines are pretty sacked out but it's a good enough placeholder) and then fitting up the bottom end/clutch assembly to the torque tube.

Will have to try and grab a photo but she's starting to look more tractor shaped and less like I dumped a pile of iron scrap on the front of the house!

Rain stops play once again now, but managed to get the block covered & overall I'm quite pleased with the progress. Plus my idea of sweating out this bug seems to have worked, I'm feeling much better too! Manual labour, the cure to all ills... Wink
Back to Top
steve(ill) View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81254
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2024 at 1:03pm
I dont know of a specific part number for the distributor with lug drive.. You see them on e-bay every now and then... the "NORMAL" drive is more common. It can be switched over with a new cover/ shaft / timing gear...

I have considered a retrofit of an auto distributor before.. 4 cylinder  (VW, FORD) or any other should work.... nice little project.. You want one that you can START about TDC, then have 30 degrees centrifugal advance by 1000 RPM..

Splines on hub shaft are a problme when the nut gets loose... If not completely destroyed, you can put a thick layer of devcon ( liquid metal) and put the hub and and snug it up good.. Let it set for 24 hours, then torque to 500 ft pounds..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
Back to Top
steve(ill) View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81254
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2024 at 1:13pm
looks something like this...


Like them all, but love the "B"s.
Back to Top
ekjdm14 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 20 Aug 2024
Location: Manchester UK
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2024 at 6:59am
Brilliant thank you, lots of good info there.  On the spline situation, the chemical metal idea sounds like a good one especially since my tractor has the spline to 5 stud adaptors so that could be made a semi-permanent union. I think there's enough left to work with anyhow, most of the damage appears to be in the adaptor not the shaft & it doesn't appear to push too far on.

Newest problem (or not) is that on cleaning up the steering gearbox it was painted green, and on further inspection is actually a Fordson unit from a standard Major (especially weird, my first guess would've been JD or Oliver from the colour!)

Fortunately the seller is a good guy & along with locating the head bolts plus possibly the rocker assy. & may be able to find the steering gear with help of his father on whose behalf he sold the tractor.

For the moment I'll oil up the top end well, cover that & get to looking at the rest of the puzzle with the bracketry for the seat/tank,tins etc. and maybe look at the distributor.

Really appreciate the help and suggestions, we'll have the old girl feeling better soon :)
Back to Top
Steve in NJ View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11818
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2024 at 9:39am
If you're interested in flipping your B over from Mag to Distributor, I offer two complete kits. One points and one electronic ignition. Units are all rebuilt top to bottom, new Coil of choice, ign. switch, wiring, spark plugs and wires, and installation instructions. Visit our website and check it out if interested...
Steve@B&B
bb-customcircuits.com
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
Back to Top
ekjdm14 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 20 Aug 2024
Location: Manchester UK
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2024 at 11:51am
Thanks Steve in NJ will check out your website but I think cost is going to factor your kits out sadly, especially so as we're in the UK (more's the pity!)

Also even if I was able to spend real money on the tractor, it'd be ruled out for the moment as I've just royally F'*£ed up while loading an old sofa onto our car & dropped a ratchet strap on the windscreen. Right smack in front of the driver, after all where else would it break? So I'm now working out how & IF I can even keep the tractor and afford the new glass...

If every cloud has a silver lining, I should be making superb quality solder joints for years out of this one!

Thanks anyway, appreciate the thought & will check out the website to distract myself...
Back to Top
Gary View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Peterborough,On
Points: 5391
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2024 at 5:38am

Dan

There use to be an Owner Registry as part of the 'Unofficial Allis' Website.

In that Registry were over 20 Allis B and EB Owners listed in the UK.

PM me your email address and I will send you a copy of those Owners.

Gary
Back to Top
ekjdm14 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 20 Aug 2024
Location: Manchester UK
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2024 at 8:48am
Thank you Gary. will shoot a pm across later on or tomorrow.

Not much to report on the B for the moment, new glass for the one car is going to be around £400 or so (not claiming insurance, that's a joke for another time anyway!) hence have decided to focus on getting one of my others on the road since the work it needed for MoT (inspection) was only going to cost about £30 and a good few hours of sweat and blood.

I'm well and truly spent now, having been rolling around on the driveway for the better part of the last week welding and throwing tools! But she's about ready now & should have a year's ticket on Monday so I should at least be able to keep the old B for the moment & maybe do a bit of R&R on that in the next week whilst the welding stuff is out front. 

Need to weld a nut onto the oil drain plug that's rounder than the tyres & one of the final drive pans is rusted through, not to mention what little is left of the tinwork.
Back to Top
wjohn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 1995
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2024 at 9:32am
Did you ever end up finding the last digit/letter in the engine serial number?
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
Back to Top
ekjdm14 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 20 Aug 2024
Location: Manchester UK
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2024 at 8:18am
Oops, seems I lost this thread as I thought I'd replied already but nothing there! Yes I ascertained the letter (not number, thanks for the pointer wjohn!) is in fact a K.

Makes sense seeing as I've found kerosene/TVO specific parts in the pile of bits.

Anyway, I've got a few photos of the tractor as it sits but will have to get them from phone to computer in order to post them. 

Also, now got a few little bits from a long dead MF65 diesel abandoned in the hills (Sadly the whole thing is returning to the earth, most bolt heads unrecognizable, 4.203 locked solid with moss growing from the exhaust and even injector lines rotted out) and it's neighbour, half of what appears to have been a 35 diesel with no cylinder head or front end.

Not huge things, just a few fine thread bolts, block drain cock & a water pump from the 65 which was somehow still free.

Why the water pump? Well the one I have is just the casing with no bearing, seal, shaft, hub or impeller. The only moving part I had was the adjustable pulley.  I was originally thinking to use the shaft & impeller from the Perkins but as that would require machining the larger impeller I've had a look and I *think* I can actually make this water pump work on the B engine.

Two of the bolt holes line up with the ones in the block, I should be able to "clock" it in such a way that the bottom hose lines up pretty good & I can make a backplate for it and block off two outlet stubs to direct flow through the block like standard.

I will of course get photos of this spectacular rig-up if I get it to fit. Just over here doing what our forefathers would'a done to get by I suppose haha
Back to Top
wjohn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 1995
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 3:42pm
Great! That all lines up then. The lower compression kerosene tractor engines were pushed for a while here but they seemed to decline pretty rapidly, maybe after WWII. As you get later into B production the K engines are much less common and they are mostly higher compression gas engines.

The kerosene engines have less power if they still have the original pistons but many have been rebuilt and changed out since then. Some other makes of tractors (IH, for example) also had different cylinder heads for distillate/kerosene. I think in most AC tractors it was mostly the pistons and manifolds which were different, and easy enough to swap out at time of engine rebuild.

If you have all the parts to put it back to original that would be neat and worth doing in my opinion.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
Back to Top
ekjdm14 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 20 Aug 2024
Location: Manchester UK
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 35 minutes ago at 7:42am
Sadly don't have much in the way of original parts & what I do have is rusty and mismatched (petrol tank has the studs torn out, plastic petcock from a briggs or something,  kero tank has a bung and brazed in newer fitting etc, it's got later rear wheels with spline adaptors too)

The pistons are reasonably flat-topped with a small (maybe 10-15cc) shallow bowl, combustion chambers in the head are pretty huge in comparison so not sure on CR as yet. If I'd known this whilst the pistons were out I'd have pulled numbers off them but as things are it'll remain a mystery.

Anyway the bolts & washers for the head have finally arrived, just in time for the weather to warm up and go all biblical on the rain for a few days...  Sooo, may bring the head indoors to prep that for install & God willing get a chance sometime over the week to clean the block surface, bolt holes etc to finally get the head installed.  At least have the engine sealed up properly for over winter.
Back to Top
steve(ill) View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81254
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 24 minutes ago at 7:53am
Standard B pistons are FLAT on top.. I have personally never seen one that was DISHED.( i know they exist, but not common around ME)... I would assume those are the Low Compressison Pistons... 15cc is  1 cubic inch.. That is a pretty good DISH for a small piston ... Standard pistons come up about FLUSH with the deck ..

Edited by steve(ill) - 4 hours 54 minutes ago at 8:23am
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
Back to Top
ekjdm14 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 20 Aug 2024
Location: Manchester UK
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 19 minutes ago at 7:58am
It's possible I've overestimated the size of the dish, I've not laid eyes on the top end for over a month really save for throwing a bit of oil down it & covering it back up. There's a definite dish to them though I will say that.  

Really wish the site's photo hosting was more flexible, I do have some pics but resizing them all to upload is a PITA even for a youngin like me!
Back to Top
PaulB View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
Points: 4742
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 17 minutes ago at 8:00am
I've torn down many "K" serial number engines that had dished and mostly cast iron pistons. You can't say anything for certain, unless you've seen it all. I've done probably 100s of BE/CE engines and I'll bet there are still some things I haven't seen yet.   
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
Back to Top
wjohn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 1995
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 13 minutes ago at 9:04am
Originally posted by PaulB PaulB wrote:

I've torn down many "K" serial number engines that had dished and mostly cast iron pistons. You can't say anything for certain, unless you've seen it all. I've done probably 100s of BE/CE engines and I'll bet there are still some things I haven't seen yet.   

I didn't even know Allis made a B with a Zenith carb specifically set up for burning alcohol until a few months ago, as one example - not that I have torn apart anywhere near the number of tractors you and some other guys have, but there are lots of neat little things I will probably never see in person on these tractors.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
Back to Top
Les Kerf View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 08 May 2020
Location: Idaho
Points: 784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 21 minutes ago at 11:56am
Originally posted by ekjdm14 ekjdm14 wrote:

...

The pistons are reasonably flat-topped with a small (maybe 10-15cc) shallow bowl, combustion chambers in the head are pretty huge in comparison so not sure on CR as yet....

...  Sooo, may bring the head indoors to prep that for install...

While the head is indoors it is a simple matter to pour a suitable liquid (something benign such as vegetable oil will suffice) into the combustion chamber to get a rough guess of its volume. Do the same with the pistons/cylinders and do the math to ascertain the compression ratio. It will be rather low.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.082 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum