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DMiller 
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 Topic: In Other manufacturer news
Posted: 05 Jul 2024 at 4:46am |
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Deere is firing mass numbers of US employees, indications are production going Out Country to Mexico. Blame is falling to Downturn of Ag Businesses.
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DougG
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Posted: 05 Jul 2024 at 8:23am |
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I gotta a feeling this is all gonna crash hard - this is a major move for Deere; they had production in Mexico already- more junk coming over the border; how can it get worse tho !!
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 05 Jul 2024 at 10:18am |
could offshore production to China ! Kubota does, just found that out this week.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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wade89
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Posted: 05 Jul 2024 at 12:59pm |
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Immigration whether legal or illegal is stagnating the wages of the jobs that are still here. Seems planned…
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Tbone95
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Posted: 05 Jul 2024 at 1:52pm |
 jaybmiller wrote:
could offshore production to China ! Kubota does, just found that out this week.
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 Where the heck did you think Kubota was made?!
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 05 Jul 2024 at 3:28pm |
drivetrain in Japan attachments in GEORGIA, USA it's a 'hybrid' some Metric some REAL fasteners....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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DanWi
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Posted: 05 Jul 2024 at 4:32pm |
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Friends dairy farm and cash crop they trade 5 John Deere s every few years. With the price of milk and corn they only ordered 1 new tractor to pull their 16 row high speed planter.
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DougG
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Posted: 05 Jul 2024 at 7:10pm |
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When Kubota came around central Mo.,,, they promoted Assembled in the USA; tractors were shipped in crates and put together at the dealership,,; they are ORANGE tho,,
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 06 Jul 2024 at 9:56am |
The three methods: CBU: Completely Built up: A product is entirely manufactured at the origin, and shipped complete and ready
SKD: Semi Knocked Down: A product is manufactured in component assemblies, which are then imported for assembly into completed products within the target market.
CKD: Complete Knocked Down: A product is imported as individual parts, and fully assembled within the target market.
The first is obvious. The second means assemblies come in, the third means individual parts come in.
There's manufacturing costs and benefits to each program- the greatest benefit in MANUFACTURING terms, for any sort of knockdown, is SPACE. Assembling an entire tractor of parts manufactured totally on ONE site, takes lots of space, not just for the assembly process, but for the manufacturing of all those individual parts. By physically spreading out the sourcing, one doesn't need land/space for one huge facility, just the transportation and storage of the logistical flow. The Who and Where becomes irrelevant... if a manufacturer can source fasteners from a location elsewhere, that means they don't have to make space at THEIR facility to manufacture fasteners.
There's very little of anything that is just made 'in one place' anymore... from a purist's argument, you could go into an Amish woodworking shop, see everything they're cutting, milling, and shaping into a rocking chair, and if there's sandpaper or screws purchased from a hardware store that may have come from Asia, it's not 'totally made' here, right?
Deere announced it's layoff cycle here, and while those words come as a shock to some, and unknown to others, it's no suprise to me... in 1976, we had several CASE plants, IH Farmall, at least five major Deere facilities, better part of a dozen foundries, at least the same amount of forging companies, well over a hundred independant machine shops, patternmaking shops, materials testing labs, welding shops, tool and die companies, small manufacturers of threaded products, rivets, and fasteners...
The economic circumstances that immediately followed, shuttered most of those facilities. We still have two Deere facilities here, but all the rest are gone. Cities got together with developers and arranged TIF money to take all the manufacturing infrastructure away, and turn it into strip mall parking lots, casinos, and hotel events centers on the taxpayers' wallets.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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JoeM(GA)
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Posted: 06 Jul 2024 at 10:21am |
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do ya think that huge pay increase the workers struck for and got helped that decision along?
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Allis Express North Georgia
41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's,
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Darwin W. Kurtz
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Posted: 06 Jul 2024 at 11:04am |
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What is Deere's advantage to assembling in Mexico over Moline, Illinois.......yes I understand the economics of cheap labor.......but stop and think about it
Its not going to matter where it was assembled if the American farmer doesn't have the money to buy it at all!
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 06 Jul 2024 at 1:32pm |
True, the economic fortitude of the classic American Family Farm has been systematically crushed by a trifecta of government control, environmental mandates, insurance, financial, and tax assessment structure, corporate contract leverage, and insideous energy costs. One cannot expect the survival of small family farms under these circumstances, and it is my impression that this is by design. A 'successful' farmer nowdays doesn't 'own' a large machine in the sense that they 'bought and owned' one 30 years ago... it is simply another circumstance of 'lease cost', where it is utilized until it reaches maturity on the MACRS schedule, then it's disposed of. One could easily argue that 'tier' emmissions regulations justifies this, but I'd be more inclined to suggest that 'tier' emmissions regulations were created to 'force' vast economic change on agriculture and business such that small business, family agriculture, etc., would be smothered out, and the market ceded to governmental entities and their 'subjects'.
When the cost to manufacture in Mexico, and SHIP to the US, is lower than the cost to manufacture in the US, and SHIP to the US, then it will happen in Mexico.
The strategic circumstance of knockdown, is that large assemblies are made in Mexico, then shipped by train to the US for assembly, can be just-as-easily assembled in Mexico fully, and shipped by train to the US.
When I drive by the Moline plant, I see combine harvesters lined up outside, ready to go on trains. Now, those combine harvesters don't go 'everywhere'... they're not used in the Rocky Mountains, or in Appalachia, because row-crop land has to be somewhat flatter... but it doesn't matter to the railway wether it's shipments are assemblies on flatcars, or combines on flatcars.
Yes, the contract negotiations had a significant impact on long-term economics- they always do. The plants in Illinois have a distinct disadvantage in economic solvency. Being closed-shop, every manufacturer knows exactly what to expect at the regular negotiating table. Couple that with Illinois' recent minimum wage perogative, the effective dollar value of EVERYTHING (labor included) on that side of the river has fallen considerably... and it's not just Deere that's feeling it. My Illinois-side suppliers' shops have had their shop-floor workforce basically vanish over the last three years... Adults have taken up all the fast-food jobs.
I don't know where all the Deere employees will go. My friends that all work there, both blue and white collar, don't know, but that's not the real tradgedy here... the real tradgedy is that the nest eggs they've grown over the last 20 years, have been reduced in value by half or more, and there's no market for their greatest skill-value now.
Edited by DaveKamp - 06 Jul 2024 at 1:40pm
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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DMiller
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Posted: 06 Jul 2024 at 4:08pm |
ANY Tier Four diesel is selling POORLY, tractors, Combines, Trucks, even RRs are updating OLD Engines rather than deal with DOC SCR Systems.
Deere in MO leases 75-80% of machines to farms, Breaks down, get a replacement coming or PAY thru the Nose in fees to Users to await repairs. Losses are mounting as NOBODY wants New now, they will Lease where do not own and have maintenance agreements.
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DougG
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Posted: 06 Jul 2024 at 6:03pm |
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Agco in Ohio= seems to be an uprising in Ohio of 8 dealerships losing Agco ?
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bigal121892
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Posted: 06 Jul 2024 at 6:35pm |
DougG wrote:
Agco in Ohio= seems to be an uprising in Ohio of 8 dealerships losing Agco ? |
I don't think they lost them, but rather gave up their AGCO dealerships in order to concentrate on the construction business side.
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soggybottomboy
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Posted: 06 Jul 2024 at 9:44pm |
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Seems like I been hearing somethimg about John Deere in the news this week. What kind of company are they? I was thinkimg they made lawn and garden equipment. Just a shame alright that such a downright salt of the earth good company would treat their employees this way. They must be in financial difficulty.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 07 Jul 2024 at 6:29am |
re: They must be in financial difficulty.
They are , as in everyone else in the farm machine business.
The systematic planned loss of 'small family' farms either to build houses or being bought out by 'conglamorates' ( aka megafarms ) has meant that fewer and fewer machines are needed. Add in the governments forced, expensive 'emissions' laws and farmers can't afford to farm. Just found out the 50 ac farm cross the street was sold for 5mill,is being rezone/developed into 13 houses. Historically, on record, some of the best bean growing land in southern Ontario for 6-7-8 decades. While it's still being 'remotely' farmed, 2 other farms either have houses or soon will. 'Oh ,it's just 55 acres...no big big deal' is what 'they' say. Idiots have NO idea WHERE their food comes from....
sigh......
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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DMiller
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Posted: 07 Jul 2024 at 7:25am |
AGCo, Deere, CIH, Kubota and so on, ALL are having issues as the current expense due to EPA Garbage is driving those expenses UP. Warranties HAVE to be paid for, dealers and Manufacturers do not eat those, the costs are transferred to next Sales.
Cat tech I am friends with, noted warranties on HE has gotten so bad they have PALLETS of DOC system parts coming in WEEKLY. Similar to truck dealers as those systems STILL are failing at dramatically HIGH rates. EPA is an Enemy, they are NOT saving the world.
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soggybottomboy
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Posted: 07 Jul 2024 at 9:36pm |
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Actually, my previous post was a lame attempt to be facetious. Deere CEO's compensation last year was 26.4 million. Their quarterly earnings figure has been more than 1 billion dollars a quarter for several quarters. At Deere, it seems to me that the only thing they think about is money. I know that could be said about a lot of businesses in corporate America these days, but it looks to be especially true about Deere. I know they make good products for the most part. Still, I detest businesses that do not give a rip about their workers, and Deere is the poster child in this trend of closing up shop and going to another country to hire cheap labor, then selling the product back here at an inflated price. I don't care what they say, they are not our friends.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 08 Jul 2024 at 6:13am |
yeesh.... 26.4 mill is about $500K a week, or $100K per workday. NOBODY is worth that much,well maybe a real good hooker...?
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 09 Jul 2024 at 12:15pm |
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Allis dave
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Posted: 17 Jul 2024 at 7:11am |
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Everyone complains that the poor farms are losing and can barely make it but every time there's a land auction it goes for huge prices. Those medium farms have money and expect to get more or they couldn't afford these huge amounts. The last 4 years have been good to farmers.
Edited by Allis dave - 17 Jul 2024 at 7:13am
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Butch(OH)
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Posted: 17 Jul 2024 at 8:13am |
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My youngest son is a master mechanic for Komatsu, same story there, about half his total work load is warrenty work on DEF and DPF systems
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DanWi
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Posted: 17 Jul 2024 at 8:54am |
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Dave I think there are a few things driving those prices and I wonder how long it's going to last. We have a liquid waste company in our area that buys land and doesn't have to make money farming it just spreads liquid on it. Two farmers had farms in the far suburbs of Milwaukee that are sitting on high dollar land and if they sell any they reinvest in more land. Then we have a large dairy that just keeps growing and buying land to grow corn silage and spread manure. Then we have a young guy then just rented a bunch of land away from others for more money maybe someone knows but we don't know what his financial backing is.akescyou scratch your head. Then there's the guy who's son is a lawyer and put together an investment group. The regular farmer can't compete with that without some kind of angle of his own.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Jul 2024 at 9:44am |
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I once was at a meeting where the CEO of the Company said "WHAT DO WE MAKE HERE"... everyone said "WIDGETS" ( or what ever was produced).... the CEO said "WRONG.. We MAKE MONEY " !! ... He said ...."I can put the money in the bank and get 5% or in the Stock Market and get close to 10% .... If your not BEATING THAT, .. YOUR LOOSING MONEY "............. "WHY STAY IN BUSINESS"...
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 17 Jul 2024 at 11:39am |
steve(ill) wrote:
I once was at a meeting where the CEO of the Company said "WHAT DO WE MAKE HERE"... everyone said "WIDGETS" ( or what ever was produced).... the CEO said "WRONG.. We MAKE MONEY " !! ... He said ...."I can put the money in the bank and get 5% or in the Stock Market and get close to 10% .... If your not BEATING THAT, .. YOUR LOOSING MONEY "............. "WHY STAY IN BUSINESS"... |
Exactly right Steve. And when companies get very good at it, people call it evil. It’s called success in capitalism. Just the people working within the system in which we live. It’s easy to say a CEO isn’t worth $x, a product not worth $y, but how should those be limited, and by who?!
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Jul 2024 at 12:41pm |
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I think some of the CEO pay is out of sight... but on the other hand if you take $26 MILLION and divide it up among 10,000 employees, EVERYBODY gets $1. an hour raise.... so its not going to FIX most problems.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Tbone95
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Posted: 17 Jul 2024 at 1:57pm |
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Yeah, it seems so. But, it’s just another market within the system.
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Ron Eggen
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Posted: 31 Jul 2024 at 8:39pm |
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If you think John Deere is bad , just google Chrysler closing plants and read what may happen with all their plants and everything else ! Rumor in Canada is that it is already started happening .
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DMiller
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Posted: 01 Aug 2024 at 4:09am |
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Stellanis is the current parent company of Chrysler, seems the plant closers US started two years back. Dodge pickups are now RAM trucks no longer Dodge Badged, produced in MX, the STL plant at Fenton closed some over 10 years ago and was completely dismantled, Belvedere IL plant has lain empty a few years where the state of IL bought it for some idiotic plan. Most facilities were obsolescing so needed complete refurbishments, easier to close and continue production elsewhere just as Deere. Cat has been Japan/Asia including China produced for close to four decades and is not coming back. Europe faring no better as Asian industries from India to SE Asian nations deliver cheaper labor than even Mexico or S America nations.
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