Certainly miss Simplicity as Allis

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   AC built some of the most simple machines on the planet, needless to say today's machines ae nice to operate but are they ever stupidly complex.
Been loading my own truck as usual at clay pit, been using a 755K Deere and NOT impressed.  Similar in size to a 963 Cat or a series 12G Allis the machine is a mound of plastic and over sensitive electronics on a iron frame.  Hydrostat is iffy as has days where will track harsh to left others it lurches and jolts as use loader hard while attempting to steer and drive forward or reverse.  To adjust speed have to use a keypad for faster/slower against shifter position.  Not in any way good.

Next up have switched into a 644K Wheel Loader, a slight better machine but still not great.  Cabin area is unhandy, cramped as was the 755K, perhaps due to the AC system sizing I did not have time to utilize as was loading then driving away, Both have Keypads to start or make adjustments to machine parameters, the 644 has a Joystick loader control as opposed to two separate handles on the 755, gear selection F or R and ranges on the 755 like a childs vid controller where are pushbuttons on the 644, Delicate to say the least as the rubber covers already falling apart.
755 will set a heaped 5t load in the truck fairly easily, the 644 can fill to 6-7t heaped just under four buckets with the 755 and three on the 644.  Wish Allis was still building as were far better in the day than these.

Edited by DMiller - 22 Jun 2024 at 5:12am

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DMiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 30008	Post Options Post Reply Quote DMiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Certainly miss Simplicity as Allis Posted: 22 Jun 2024 at 5:09am
	AC built some of the most simple machines on the planet, needless to say today's machines ae nice to operate but are they ever stupidly complex. Been loading my own truck as usual at clay pit, been using a 755K Deere and NOT impressed. Similar in size to a 963 Cat or a series 12G Allis the machine is a mound of plastic and over sensitive electronics on a iron frame. Hydrostat is iffy as has days where will track harsh to left others it lurches and jolts as use loader hard while attempting to steer and drive forward or reverse. To adjust speed have to use a keypad for faster/slower against shifter position. Not in any way good. Next up have switched into a 644K Wheel Loader, a slight better machine but still not great. Cabin area is unhandy, cramped as was the 755K, perhaps due to the AC system sizing I did not have time to utilize as was loading then driving away, Both have Keypads to start or make adjustments to machine parameters, the 644 has a Joystick loader control as opposed to two separate handles on the 755, gear selection F or R and ranges on the 755 like a childs vid controller where are pushbuttons on the 644, Delicate to say the least as the rubber covers already falling apart. 755 will set a heaped 5t load in the truck fairly easily, the 644 can fill to 6-7t heaped just under four buckets with the 755 and three on the 644. Wish Allis was still building as were far better in the day than these. Edited by DMiller - 22 Jun 2024 at 5:12am

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Ages Cat Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hutchinson, MN Points: 684	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ages Cat Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jun 2024 at 9:23am
	We did excavating work in the early 80's. I owned and leased 3 of the machines you are discussing. All I can say is never again.
	Curt Anderson HD3, HD5B, HD6E, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400, 615, 616,620, 720, ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, 655 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225.

HudCo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3359	Post Options Post Reply Quote HudCo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jun 2024 at 9:35am
	my favorite machine was the 966c but i havent spent much time in a lot of others

orangeman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 1716	Post Options Post Reply Quote orangeman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jun 2024 at 9:42am
	This is what happens when Corporate consolidation is allowed to run rampant in a free market society - the populous winds up with less choices, the Security and Exchange Commission is on the dole and laws governing mergers and acquisitions have no or very little enforcement! Respectfully, ~ Orangeman

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41346	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jun 2024 at 12:20pm
	The control lever or pedal that once operated a mechanical linkage has been replaced with a joy stick that electronically controls another electronic control which operates a internal electrical circuit that does a mechanical function . Now what can go wrong with electronics other than moisture , broken wires , dirt , or bad ground . Somehow ease of a small wire on heavy machines has become the dilemma of modern electronics when married to areas with extreme conditions . Then it's not just electronics , I have a locking gas cap on motorcycle , it has plastic within and that plastic swells in presence of alcohol , making lock stick and removal of cap extremely difficult using key without breaking it . Next switch on handlebar for killing engine controls a ECM that shuts down rest of electronics , if it gets wet nothing works . OR some parts work but other functions of ECM come back but not electronic ignition module . Skid loader (Bobcat S300) has 4 wheel steer , until somewhere in system one wheel will switch to steer but other 3 stay in straight run position . Shop says around $3000 for fix . Then in Automotive - electronics are replacing all functions and without a scan tool and Electronics Degree now your not a mechanic . New Western Star truck with big Detroit engine spend more time in LIMP MODE than running on jobs - setting in shop waiting for field service rep as mechanics scratched their heads for reason it kept happening .
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

DMiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 30008	Post Options Post Reply Quote DMiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jun 2024 at 2:35pm
	ALL, Pretty well On the Mark and VERY Sad as this industry changes, NOT for the better.

steve(ill) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78737	Post Options Post Reply Quote steve(ill) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jun 2024 at 4:08pm
	The old saying "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR" is all BULL CHIT... as your PAYING 10 TIMES MORE MONEY and getting little if ANYTHING for it... Yea, a joy stick might be easier on your arms after 10 hour day use... BUTT.. the complexity and electronics is a joke! Edited by steve(ill) - 22 Jun 2024 at 4:08pm
	Like them all, but love the "B"s.

Codger Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 1913	Post Options Post Reply Quote Codger Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jun 2024 at 8:31pm
	There are three things in equipment I really like that are more of the modern variety. 1. The manually selected power shift, or power shuttle transmission 2. The enclosed cab with good cable actuated HVAC, and filtration 3. Sound attenuation of the exterior work environment. Almost all of the ergonomic, and comfort garbage installed these days I can do without. While the case can, and is routinely made, a comfortable operator is more productive, a reliable machine will easily shut that theory down as a very comfortable machine to operate gone "tits up" does no good for anybody. This we all know happens far too often and many times it's related to something electronic actuated or interpreted by an ECM.
	A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.

jaybmiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 21764	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaybmiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jun 2024 at 3:23am
	Totally agree with you. The old Allis machines were so straightforward and reliable. Modern ones are packed with too many electronics and finicky controls. That 755K sounds like a headache with all its issues. Nothing beats the simplicity and durability of the old-school gear.
	3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water

Ray54 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4405	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ray54 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jun 2024 at 11:45am
	I fully agree with the sentiment of too many do dads that are not needed and just waiting to fail. But by the same token AC was at the front of some of that innovation. The L and M combines came with electric selenides controlling hydraulic functions on them. From what I know it was first in the combines. ( only 3 brands around here because of hillside leveling, so somebody else could had it too) I very much remember an old mechanic mumbling something about modern engineers and what did they think they knew, L G Letourneau could not make electric work how are these guys going to keep it working. Well they did make it work and relatively relievable too.