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Run a 225 welder off a 5000 watt generator

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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 May 2024 at 8:46am
Can I run my Lincoln 225 buzz box off of a 5000 watt generator.
Light work 1/8” square tube on hand rails. Not continuous
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2024 at 9:10am
Well, I'm not sure what the output voltage on the 225 is, around 40 VAC I think. So, at the 90 amp setting you would be below 5000 watts. Not accounting for losses. But I wouldn't think it would be a problem, unless there is something I am failing to account for
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2024 at 9:15am
The INPUT at 5000 watts / 240 volts would be 20 amps ... As Lou said the OUTPUT would be in the 100 amp range............. I do that with 3/32 rod..... your 1/8 inch might be a little BIG... if it STICKS or will not stay lit, use the 3/32 rod and sould be OK.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2024 at 12:38pm
I wouldn't be afraid to try it; even burning a whole stick at a time you still have to stop and get a fresh stick and that gives it a rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2024 at 1:01pm
OOOPS... i read that as 1/8 rod... you said 1/8 inch tubing... I would guess your using 3/32 rod already.. Even a smaller 1/16 or .075 dia rod would work on that small tube.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2024 at 4:46pm
I need to remove a lot of handrail on a very large deck that wraps around a house twice and goes up and down a lot of stairs.
I need to replace all the deck boards and will keep the handrail intact as possible. I also have to paint all the handrail.
It would take a whole lot of welding lead to get to some of these places. The welder and generator would be much easier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2024 at 5:10pm
You probably really want to use 220v extension cord(s) not welding cable extension ??
Then again price of 8/3 x 100' might be more than a 10KW generator !
Maybe 'do the math' see what's economical....but price it into the job !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2024 at 6:53pm
I've ran my Lincoln AC-225 machine from a 5KW Coleman generator in the past. However, my old Miller 61 is much smoother and can be dialed in closely with infinite adjustment capability. I've used 1/8" rod, but only E6013 on clean/new steel while doing this. Most times have been 3/32" of different varieties.
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac fleet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2024 at 11:01am
Never tried it but was always wondering if my 8500 would run mine. Never got around to hotwiring a plug adapter but  they should work with smaller rods. If they wont use 1/8" go smaller rods and should be fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2024 at 12:16am
The Lincoln AC225 would typically be wired into a 240v/50A plug/receptacle.  That's 12kw.

A 240v/20A circuit is 4800w (240*20=4800)... so you're offering the buzz box just over one THIRD of it's total power capacity.

In THEORY, if you only load the welder lightly, it should be okay, right?

Yes, but no.   It WILL weld, if you dial it WAY down, and use a very thin rod, but here's where the real problem hides:

The welding transformer is a device that depends on saturation and slope... meaning, it's not just an 'ordinary' transformer where it's input and output ratios are simple.

For what you want to do, though, a 240v/20A extension cord and a 'suitcase MIG' with gasless 0.035 wire and reversed polarity would do a very admirable job for 1/8" wall tubing.

The welding transformer is designed specifically to WANT to maintain a stable arc.

in a stick welder, and in TIG welding, the transformer is designed to self-stabilize using a 'constant current' output.  The arc voltage changes as a result of arc length, but current flow does not.

In a wire-feed setup, the arc voltage stays constant, the current varies based on arc length.

I could explain HOW the welding transformer does this, but it'd take a long time, and those that didn't expire simply from the length of it, would do themselves in from the trauma of having to tolerate it, so I'll just leave it at this much:

It'll work, but your generator will NOT like it, and your welds will be neither attractive nor effective.  Even at low power levels, the transformer will pull on the generator enough to make it drift in frequency, surge and sag in voltage.

If you were close to me, I'd just let you borrow one of my engine-driven welders...

For what it's worth, a 240V/20A extension cord to a 'suitcase MIG' with 0.035" flux-core wire, in reverse polarity, would do an excellent job for your 1/8" wall railing...


Edited by DaveKamp - 24 May 2024 at 12:19am
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2024 at 5:19am
Originally posted by DaveKamp DaveKamp wrote:

The Lincoln AC225 would typically be wired into a 240v/50A plug/receptacle.  That's 12kw.

A 240v/20A circuit is 4800w (240*20=4800)... so you're offering the buzz box just over one THIRD of it's total power capacity.

In THEORY, if you only load the welder lightly, it should be okay, right?

Yes, but no.   It WILL weld, if you dial it WAY down, and use a very thin rod, but here's where the real problem hides:

The welding transformer is a device that depends on saturation and slope... meaning, it's not just an 'ordinary' transformer where it's input and output ratios are simple.

For what you want to do, though, a 240v/20A extension cord and a 'suitcase MIG' with gasless 0.035 wire and reversed polarity would do a very admirable job for 1/8" wall tubing.

The welding transformer is designed specifically to WANT to maintain a stable arc.

in a stick welder, and in TIG welding, the transformer is designed to self-stabilize using a 'constant current' output.  The arc voltage changes as a result of arc length, but current flow does not.

In a wire-feed setup, the arc voltage stays constant, the current varies based on arc length.

I could explain HOW the welding transformer does this, but it'd take a long time, and those that didn't expire simply from the length of it, would do themselves in from the trauma of having to tolerate it, so I'll just leave it at this much:

It'll work, but your generator will NOT like it, and your welds will be neither attractive nor effective.  Even at low power levels, the transformer will pull on the generator enough to make it drift in frequency, surge and sag in voltage.

If you were close to me, I'd just let you borrow one of my engine-driven welders...

For what it's worth, a 240V/20A extension cord to a 'suitcase MIG' with 0.035" flux-core wire, in reverse polarity, would do an excellent job for your 1/8" wall railing...



Thank you Dave. As always I appreciate your input.
I have an engine driven welder but not near enough lead.
I used to have a small mig that would work for this.
I didn’t like it and sold it a few years back.
Maybe should have kept it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2024 at 7:48am
I've used my suitcase feeder, (Hobart Bros.) many times with my 1957 build, DC only 300A Hobart Bros. engine drive machine welding 1/8" wall pipe for fencing on straight polarity. Thinner wall also repairing bent up fence panels remote from the shop. 

Many will say it can't be done, but that's not my experience over the years. Always used flux core Lincoln wire when out of doors and really haven't had any problems once "dialed in".
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2024 at 12:02pm
I ran flux core only, from the 'original' Hobart Handler (90A at 15% duty cycle) running 0.045" wire for over 20 years before I snagged my old CP-200 and got it converted to single phase.

Flux core requires the polarity reversed... DC Electrode Negative.  Most who don't succeed with flux-core make the mistake of setting it up as if using gas (DCEP), and the result is that the wire will NOT properly maintain stickout.

Gasless wirefeed has some distinct advantages in some circumstances, and when those circumstances exist, it's the perfect solution.  Those circumstances include:

Windy conditions-  Flux core wire leaves a flux shield, which protects the weld when windy conditions would otherwise blow shielding gas away.  (In extreme conditions, I've used flux core wire AND shielding gas together)

Portable/hard to access circumstances - A suitcase MIG will go places a much larger machine won't.  It's best not to use an extension cord, but if you do, use the most beastly extension cord you can (10AWG or thicker) so you have full power at the unit...

In-situ fitup - While they're small and weak in comparison to a commercial or industrial wire welder, they're excellent for fitting up parts that need to be aligned in-situ.  They have small, lightweight guns that will reach in and tack together parts where a big machine won't easily go, particularly without a long whip lead.  Running shorter whip means lower feed friction, so they'll feed better when you're standing on your head under a machine.

General small garage shop use - A flux-core mig is inexpensive, handy, and has no problem sticking all kinds of small stuff together.  If a guy comes to me looking for suggestions on getting the very start of fabrication capacity in his shop, I'll point him to a good-quality suitcase with flux core, and a 4" grinder with cutoff discs, flap disks, and wire brush.

Welding a railing...  a local custom shop here specializes in iron stairways, handrails, fences, gates, window bars, grating, etc., for both older home restorations as well as new homes that need custom stuff.  When they go on field installs, they take their shop-made works, and bring along a small torch set, a gasless MIG, and 4" grinder... and they fit up in-situ using that kit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2024 at 8:22am
I've run a cheap inverter welder off a 110 volt 15 amp outlet it welds nice on thin metal with 1/16 th or 3/32 rod not so good with 1/8.  you can get one from amazon for $60 the leads are short and cheap. and its not good for comercial production. but it only weighs about 6 lbs and I can use it anywhere. I have a gas powered miller on my welder truck. but it's sometimes had to get the truck in and I hate getting out the long cables .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bverwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2024 at 9:22pm
I’ve ran an old buzz box welder off of a 5000 watt Coleman powermate generator several times. I was building some livestock fence and was welding 1/8” thick straps/clamps to drill stem posts. It made the generator snort a bit but it seemed to do the job. Welder didn’t seem to weld any different from when it was plugged-in in my shop. I was only burning up half a rod before stopping for 30-45 secs. or so and then finishing up the rod. Then about a minute or two break while getting the next strap/clamp ready. I didn’t have an engine driven welder at the time so I made due with what I had.
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