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Ky.Allis 
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Location: Kentucky
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 Topic: Hay rakes
Posted: 21 Feb 2024 at 1:47pm |
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Not AC but need opinions/pros/cons from anyone who has used a rotary hay rake. Currently using a Kuhn 10-wheel V-Rake and it works good and it's fast, but just wanting to make a "neater" windrow and still clean the ground. Rake and bale (round & square) everything from tall orchard grass/fescue to alfalfa to short fall grass cutting. No straw or corn stalks. Thinking of a 2-basket version. Haven't looked at any yet, but several brands available within 30 miles. I don't know squat about them, so anything info would be helpful and MUCH appreciated. Thanks, Steve
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AC7060IL
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Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Location: central IL
Points: 3320
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Posted: 21 Feb 2024 at 2:06pm |
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DanielW
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Joined: 19 Sep 2022
Location: Ontario
Points: 157
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Posted: 21 Feb 2024 at 5:19pm |
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If you can afford one, I'd advocate for a twin rotary rake. Your windrow will be neat, and so airy and fluffy it'll save at least half a day of drying time. They also handle the hay so gently you'll save a lot more alfalfa/clover leaf matter and have much better quality feed.
Every time rotary rakes are mentioned however, about 90% of people love them while the other 10% complain about not liking the rotaries because they're too complex, or have too many moving parts. I never got this. A simple rolabar rake has 5 or six bars with a bearing/cam-follow in each end (10-12 in total) about 50-80 teeth, a gearbox, and a driveshaft. A simple rotary rake covering the same width has about 6-8 bars with a bearing/cam-follower in one end (6-8 total), 18-24 tines, a gearbox, and a driveshaft. I'd argue the rotaries are actually a simpler mechanism. True: if you run it into a fence post you won't do it any favours, but as long as your slip clutch is working (and you avoid the fence posts) this isn't a concern.
Edited by DanielW - 22 Feb 2024 at 5:28am
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AC720Man
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Joined: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Shenandoah, Va
Points: 4847
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Posted: 21 Feb 2024 at 9:05pm |
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We have used a roller bar rake for 50 years. Although it has done well I noticed years ago it’s down falls. It leaves more on the ground than I like even with new teeth. Most importantly it rolls the hay which weaves it. So if you pull up to a thicker section of a windrow you need to stop ahead of it before the baler draws it into the baler. It’s just something you watch for and learn over the years. Just one of its drawbacks. Also, hay doesn’t dry as well and quickly as a rotary rake. About 6 years ago I started helping my best friend in his hay operation on weekends when he needed extra help. He square bales 20-25k per year. He ran double roller bar rakes for many years but purchased 2 new Krone rotary rakes after we went to a farm show in PA. There is no comparison in how well it windrows hay. It leaves very little hay in the field. Nice, fluffy, even windrow. When you come to the end of a windrow just use the hydraulic lift to raise the rake. In light hay just go up the other side to double it. Or if it’s really light keep going in circles and triple it and then come down the other side. With the rake lifted you can even cross over existing windrows. Drying time is cut in half in my opinion over a traditional roller bar rake. The biggest advantage in my opinion is the even flow of hay when it enters the baler, producing even bales. I’ve also used a wheel rake, I did not like it because it pulled our orchard grass up as the rake spun. Maybe it was just the brand and not all of them do it? Krone, Kuhn make nice rotary rakes, Enorossii as well. I highly recommend trying one out.
Edited by AC720Man - 21 Feb 2024 at 9:08pm
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Michagman
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Joined: 18 Jan 2023
Location: Michigan
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Posted: 22 Feb 2024 at 7:49am |
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Have you ever thought of a windrow inverter? They are hard to beat for a neat windrow. They aren't quite as versatile as a rake so you might want to keep your old one. The only issue I have with our NH 166 is that it can struggle with the heaviest windrows from our 12' cutter. Where they really shine is in how gentle they handle the hay and letting you set the width of their windrows. It's really nice not having to swerve around the field all day with the round baler.
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Allis dave
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Joined: 10 May 2012
Location: Northern IN
Points: 2900
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Posted: 22 Feb 2024 at 11:41am |
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I agree, the inverters are very nice and hae their place. They are great when the hay is almost dry but you just can't seem to get the dampness out of the underneath.
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tbran
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Points: 3275
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Posted: 22 Feb 2024 at 1:44pm |
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The twin rotary rakes are great for large flat fields - the more rolling the fields the more issues one has with the rotary rakes as to durability. They are very expensive to repair. The issue with most finger wheel rakes are people buy the cheapys that do not have spring suspension on each arm. Finger wheel rakes are designed to have the finger touch the stubble or hay and not the ground. IF you look at your finger wheel rake and the fingers are worn to a point - you have too much pressure on the fingers. The hay - not the ground - spins the wheel. The rakes that have 2 finger wheels on a pivot arm are built to sell cheap - not do a good job of raking hay.
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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bigal121892
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Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Location: Nebraska
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Posted: 22 Feb 2024 at 4:37pm |
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If you can find one, an Allen rake is probably the best rake out there.
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rw
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Joined: 28 Oct 2009
Location: United States
Points: 383
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Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 4:39am |
I bought mine to help keep soil out of round bale silage and it has done this. It has impressed me more to find dry hay in round bales better at feeding because the hay is a bit dryer when we bale it. I have a side delivery Krone two rotor about 22 feet per pass. At 5 MPH it covers about ten acres per hour. Going down and back we can put four 11 foot mower passes into a double windrow that will go into a 605XL Vermeer. The windrows are tall, the raked hay stands with the stems in vertical folds. I can get 30 bales an hour through the baler with three wraps of net. About a minute to bale and a minute to wrap dump and close the tailgate. I paid a small fortune to buy it as a five year old used machine. I think it has payed back in improved quality of dry hay at feeding, efficient use of time baling by having the baler at capacity even with lower ground speed baling.
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BillinAlberta
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Saskatchewan
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Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 7:03am |
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I'm not sure if a haybob qualifies but it does have 2 rotary wheels.I can adjust it very easily from ted to rake.Nice fluffy windrows but useless for bunching short crops.Have used the allis bar rake for the last 3 years and left the haybob in the weeds.Maybe this year we will get some rain.
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Acguywill
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Joined: 15 Jan 2024
Location: Vauxhall ab Can
Points: 75
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Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 9:20am |
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The biggest drawback to rotary rakes is the amount of repairs required to keep them going. If you have gopher hills or washouts or sprayer tracks or pivot tracks you will have issues. The biggest reason being the tiny little wheels they put under them. Any little dip or hump and you end up with the teeth scratching through the dirt and eventually bending or breaking the arms off. Not to mention they do a wonderful job of pulling rocks out of the ground and putting them into the windrow at the same time. If you lift it up to prevent contact with the ground it will leave more than a properly set wheel rake. We have a single rotor rake and bought a cheap Vermeer wheel rake, it has only done a few thousand acres so far but haven't had to fix anything on it. And best of all way less rocks so easier on the baler and bale processor, and the cows don't have nearly as much shrapnel to fear.
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tbran
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
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Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 2:15pm |
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Agree - the rotary rakes have an arm / bushing / roller bearing cam follower - and cam track and drive shaft/bevel gear set(s), Pto drive line etc. Lack of lube and rough ground are not friends to all these. IT is a trade off for an almost perfect windrow and gentle handling of crop that is not 'roped'.
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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AC720Man
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Joined: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Shenandoah, Va
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Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 4:36pm |
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The only issue he has had raking thousands of acres in the 6 years is a broken arm down near the the axle due to a deep groundhog hole. A piece of angle iron welded in place in 30 minutes and it was back in service. Any machine will break in rough ground or ground hog holes. We will till up ground, drag it, what ever it is required to have a smooth hay field. Required not only for a rake, but for the baler, disc mower, Bale Baron, and tractors. Speed is key to hi production, smooth ground is required. As far as Krone rotary rake, its tuff and does a remarkable job of producing a beautiful windrow of fluffy hay. Just my 6 year experience using it.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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DanielW
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Joined: 19 Sep 2022
Location: Ontario
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Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 6:24pm |
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I'm with AC720Man: Rotary rakes are a heck of a lot better and more robust than they were when they first came on the scene. The early Kuhn and especially the Deutz ones were notorious for busting out tracks, ring gears, or bar-ends. But they've come a long way since then. One thing I will agree with that was said earlier: The ones with single, small wheels are absolutely awful on really rough ground. Up here in the heart of the Canadian shield we have some ridiculously rough and rocky fields. I have two rotary rakes: An older Gehl 260 (rebadged Tonutti) with small single wheels, and a newer Kuhn with walking axles and slightly larger tires. There's no comparison: The walking axles on the Kuhn float over rough ground beautifully while the single wheels on the Gehl catch every dip, rock, and groundhog hole.
I also don't quite understand the argument that rotaries dig up dirt either: Both of mine pick up hay very smoothly without touching the ground, and leave the field much, much cleaner than any of the (many) rolabar rakes we've had over the years.
Edited by DanielW - 24 Feb 2024 at 6:25pm
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AC720Man
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Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 9:08pm |
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In the 6 years of running Krone rotary rakes, I can attest that the broken arm has been its only downfall due to a deep groundhog hole. They have been rock solid and he is planning to replace them with updated Krone rakes. Setup is important for any machine, once that is done it’s just a matter of watching it make beautiful windrows. The key is keeping any machine on the same tractor, same drawbar height, same speed. We usually keep 2 tractors setup with a rake on each. Once setup, it’s easy to rake perfect windrows with each tractor. 2-575 NH balers running, dropping hay on the ground and the Bale Baron 2 hours behind picking up hay we can easily bale 3,000 bales in an afternoon.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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jvin248
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Posted: 26 Feb 2024 at 7:26pm |
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I grew up using roll bar rakes (Case steel wagon wheel types) and only watch YouTube videos of the rotary rakes. The rotary rakes look super fragile (mosquito wheels under them) and seem like they beat the hay leaves off. Every video I've seen so far.
Probably all rake setup and 'youtuber mis-operation' but they never look convincing other than a dream for less cash investment.
Leaves not stems in the bales are best.
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DanielW
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Posted: 26 Feb 2024 at 7:52pm |
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From much experience with many rolabar and a few rotary rakes, I can say the converse is true. Rotary rakes are much, much gentler on the hay and leave far more leaf matter. A rotary rake comes down, gently grabs the hay, sweeps it to one side, and drops it. A rolabar rake has one set of teeth bash into the hay, sweep it 8", then the next bar comes down, bashes into it, sweeps it the next 8", over and over. Every large hay producer in this area (lots of alfalfa shipped out West or to port) trying to save leaf matter and who send hay out for regular crude protein, ndf, and rfv testing has gone to rotary rakes for that reason. There's lots of hay testing in this area because the racetracks and long distance buyers of alfalfa only want the best. But you're right: The mosquito wheels are a downfall. Even so, a rotary rake with walking axles has more wheel surface in contact with the ground and rides a lot smoother than a rolabar rake, especially now that rotary rakes almost all have counterbalance mechanisms. If you get a chance, try one out. I too was a skeptic before we tried ours. One day of testing was enough: There was never any thought of going back to a rolabar after that. YouTube videos are not an adequate way to determine how smooth and gentle they are.
Edited by DanielW - 26 Feb 2024 at 7:55pm
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AC720Man
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Posted: 26 Feb 2024 at 9:35pm |
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My brother Charlie put a YouTube video of me raking with the Krone last year from his drone. It gave an excellent view from above of how well it rakes. Unless you actually use one, you are not going to see the benefits first hand. JMO
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Tbone95
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Posted: 27 Feb 2024 at 7:14am |
 rw wrote:
I bought mine to help keep soil out of round bale silage and it has done this. It has impressed me more to find dry hay in round bales better at feeding because the hay is a bit dryer when we bale it. I have a side delivery Krone two rotor about 22 feet per pass. At 5 MPH it covers about ten acres per hour. Going down and back we can put four 11 foot mower passes into a double windrow that will go into a 605XL Vermeer. The windrows are tall, the raked hay stands with the stems in vertical folds. I can get 30 bales an hour through the baler with three wraps of net. About a minute to bale and a minute to wrap dump and close the tailgate. I paid a small fortune to buy it as a five year old used machine. I think it has payed back in improved quality of dry hay at feeding, efficient use of time baling by having the baler at capacity even with lower ground speed baling.
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That kind of production! Wow I can only dream! Impressive.
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victoryallis
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Posted: 27 Feb 2024 at 11:28am |
jvin248 wrote:
.
I grew up using roll bar rakes (Case steel wagon wheel types) and only watch YouTube videos of the rotary rakes. The rotary rakes look super fragile (mosquito wheels under them) and seem like they beat the hay leaves off. Every video I've seen so far.
Probably all rake setup and 'youtuber mis-operation' but they never look convincing other than a dream for less cash investment.
Leaves not stems in the bales are best.
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I’ve raked with bar rakes, rotary, and wheel rakes. The bar is far the one that really doesn’t have a place. We switch between a rotary and a wheel depending on conditions. A rotary is fine as long as you have an operator and not a driver out raking.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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