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D17 Hydraulic Problems |
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Koda
Bronze Level Joined: 20 Sep 2023 Location: Colorado Points: 5 |
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Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 10:18am |
Hi all. New to the Forum. Just purchased my 1959 D17 and having problems with the 3 point hydraulics. Could not raise the arms so I checked the fluid level. Found the level not reading on the indicator so topped off and everything seemed to function properly. Started to mow the field and the Transmission vent / fill cap started pushing fluid out. Soon the hydraulics would not work again. Low on fluid again. Do the two share fluid? Is there a seal that could be a problem? Thanks for any info.
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Clay
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Udall, Kansas Points: 9322 |
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There is a hose inside housing where the lift arms are attached. Inside this housing is a single action cylinder. Attached to the cylinder is a hose.
Most likely, the hose has ruptured. This can fill the transmission/differential with excess fluid. Purchase the hose from AGCO or a reputable Allis Chalmers parts supplier. Read the shop manual for details.
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Koda
Bronze Level Joined: 20 Sep 2023 Location: Colorado Points: 5 |
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Thank for the reply. I will look at the hose and repair.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20477 |
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Be sure to reseal the hydraulic cylinder that's in there as well. Order a seal kit from AGCO as per the tractor serial number. Either hose or seals are leaking. Replace both.
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4910 |
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A 3 bar grill D17, gas or diesel? I like that year D14, D17.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Koda
Bronze Level Joined: 20 Sep 2023 Location: Colorado Points: 5 |
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Not a 3 bar. It is gas
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MadCow
Bronze Level Joined: 27 Aug 2023 Location: South Dakota Points: 112 |
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Do you have to split the tractor to do this? My arms on my D15 are starting to drift down, and I think it's an internal leak, I don't see anything exterior, and there's fluid leaking from the PTO shaft cover plate.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20477 |
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Hold on !! Until your hydraulic sump oil level goes DOWN and the transmission oil level goes UP, you don't have a bad lift arm hose or lift cylinder packing. A leaking PTO seal is a leaking PTO seal. A hydraulic pump that won't hold a load can be the hold valve internally leaking but will cause zero oil transfer problems.
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Koda
Bronze Level Joined: 20 Sep 2023 Location: Colorado Points: 5 |
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The problem with mine turned out to be the packing in the lift cylinder. The internal hose appeared to have been replaced.
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MadCow
Bronze Level Joined: 27 Aug 2023 Location: South Dakota Points: 112 |
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Doc in to save the day. Looks like I have another reason to inspect my hydraulic pump.
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GSTROM99
Silver Level Joined: 12 Dec 2020 Location: Greene, IA Points: 244 |
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I'm having the same issues with my D17, which I'm trying to start using for food plot work. Just bought and cut down a chisel plow and it still wont lift it. Weak 3 point lifting, hyd oil was low, trans oil high. Sounds like Doc's Dx. I think I have a manual here somewhere - I need to find it, but have never split a tractor before. Should it lift this, if working well? |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20477 |
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You need to get a 5,000 psi gauge and plug it in to your remote outlet. Raise the lift/lower lever to attempt to lift the implement and see what the gauge reads. Should read upwards of 3,000 psi if it lifts the load. Less than that and no lift the load means you have pump issues or oil transfering problems.
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GSTROM99
Silver Level Joined: 12 Dec 2020 Location: Greene, IA Points: 244 |
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That's my plan. Does there need to be weight/load on the arms? Thanks. Edited by GSTROM99 - 12 Mar 2024 at 4:11pm |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20477 |
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Ideally, the arms raise fully to the top and then the gauge reaches it's peak reading. If it doesn't lift the load and the pressure reads 3,000+ psi, the load is too heavy for the tractor. If it doesn't lift the load and the reading is less than 3,000 psi you have problems.
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GSTROM99
Silver Level Joined: 12 Dec 2020 Location: Greene, IA Points: 244 |
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Okay. So, rather than connect the gauge to a male hose end and plug it in to the remote, I need to plumb it into one of the lines. Which one? Edited by GSTROM99 - 12 Mar 2024 at 7:23pm |
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GSTROM99
Silver Level Joined: 12 Dec 2020 Location: Greene, IA Points: 244 |
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Doc: I re-read your post. Just plug it into the remote, then?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20477 |
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Plug into the remote outlet coupler and operate whatever levers it takes to make the arms raise to the top. EDIT: I can't say I've ever seen a remote valve plumbed like that one. Don't know how it even works. All wrong as far as I'm concerned. Remote female coupler needs to be connected on the Transport valve, not a hose. "IN" port on the remote valve connects thru a hose plugged into the Transport valve with female tip. "OUT" port on remote valve tees into a return hose going back into the sump under the fuel sediment bowl. The existing tee on yours doesn't belong there. When using lift arms, unplug the hose and let it hang for max hyd pressure to lift arms. Plumbed all wrong and cannot work correctly or powerfully.
Edited by DrAllis - 13 Mar 2024 at 7:00am |
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GSTROM99
Silver Level Joined: 12 Dec 2020 Location: Greene, IA Points: 244 |
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Ha! I'm glad I posted that pic. I don't know if the remote DOES work. I didn't install that, nor have I ever used it. I've only had this tractor for a few years, and only recently installed the 3 point conversion to even try to raise anything. I will have to re-do that too (or maybe just remove it completely). The rear remote is not needed for the lift arms to work, is it? Thanks!!!
Edited by GSTROM99 - 13 Mar 2024 at 7:48am |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20477 |
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EXTRA dual-acting remote valve not needed. Where your hose is connected to the Transport valve is normally where the remote female coupler is installed. You'll have to remove the tee to make things work as OEM. Be sure to use two open end wrenches on that brass elbow or you will crush it/ruin it.
Edited by DrAllis - 13 Mar 2024 at 11:41am |
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Allis dave
Orange Level Joined: 10 May 2012 Location: Northern IN Points: 2915 |
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Here's a picture of how I connected my vavle a year ago. Mine is plugged into the remote and can be disconnected to use your standard high pressure system cylinder. |
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Gatz in NE
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lincoln, NE Points: 1036 |
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In reference to the hydraulics ….. Our ‘58 D17 Diesel had sufficient hydraulic power to lift the entire wide front end off the ground. We discovered this when using our home-built platform to transport a rotary hoe across a small stream. I had to climb on the front axle to add some more weight while Dad drove the tractor. Nearly got my toes smashed doing so.
Edited by Gatz in NE - 13 Mar 2024 at 1:44pm |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20477 |
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Agreed. A healthy hydraulic system can usually raise an unweighted front end off the ground.
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GSTROM99
Silver Level Joined: 12 Dec 2020 Location: Greene, IA Points: 244 |
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Thanks all. As I said, I have work to do...
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GSTROM99
Silver Level Joined: 12 Dec 2020 Location: Greene, IA Points: 244 |
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Well, my problem is fixed. I only had 2k psi at the coupler - turns out they plumbed in a "4 way" control valve (which I think had a low by-pass setting), but with an extra pressure hose (thanks Doc). I just took off the 4 way valve setup and returned it to original - with one coupler coming off the transport valve. Got 3200 psi there now. It lifts the chisel plow with ease. I'm happy. Thanks all. Edited by GSTROM99 - 15 Mar 2024 at 5:25pm |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20477 |
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Most all of those add-on valves are set at 2,000 psi, as that was the industry standard for that time in history.
Edited by DrAllis - 16 Mar 2024 at 6:14am |
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GSTROM99
Silver Level Joined: 12 Dec 2020 Location: Greene, IA Points: 244 |
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... and my Traction Booster gauge came back to life too. It won't be used of course, since I won't be pulling via the bottom snap coupler link/hook.
Edited by GSTROM99 - 16 Mar 2024 at 8:52am |
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Travis2766
Silver Level Joined: 26 Aug 2015 Location: Amherst, Wi Points: 405 |
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Looks like you have a Cross aftermarket 3 point on your D17, you will still be pulling off the snap coupler because the 3 point attaches to the drawbar which attaches to the snap coupler bell.
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190XT Series III, D17 Series IV, D15 Series II, All Crop 66 and a whole mess of equipment.
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GSTROM99
Silver Level Joined: 12 Dec 2020 Location: Greene, IA Points: 244 |
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You're right. I forgot that I had to re-mount the drawbar into the coupler. I stand corrected.
Edited by GSTROM99 - 17 Mar 2024 at 7:29am |
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HudCo
Orange Level Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3536 |
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now you have to weld the digger back together
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GSTROM99
Silver Level Joined: 12 Dec 2020 Location: Greene, IA Points: 244 |
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Na, not gonna do that. I'll replace the bad points and run it with 6. If it pulls real easy, I can add wings and two points, at the front. The frame came with the wing mounting holes at the front corners already. I think pulling 8 shanks would be hard, with only fair tires and not much added fluid in the tires (20%?) now.
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