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D17 Hydraulic Problems

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Koda View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 10:18am
Hi all.  New to the Forum.  Just purchased my 1959 D17 and having problems with the 3 point hydraulics.  Could not raise the arms so I checked the fluid level.  Found the level not reading on the indicator so topped off and everything seemed to function properly.  Started to mow the field and the Transmission vent / fill cap started pushing fluid out.  Soon the hydraulics would not work again.  Low on fluid again.  Do the two share fluid?  Is there a seal that could be a problem?   Thanks for any info.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 12:20pm
There is a hose inside housing where the lift arms are attached.  Inside this housing is a single action cylinder.  Attached to the cylinder is a hose.  
Most likely, the hose has ruptured.  This can fill the transmission/differential with excess fluid.
Purchase the hose from AGCO or a reputable Allis Chalmers parts supplier.
Read the shop manual for details.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Koda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 5:13pm
Thank for the reply.  I will look at the hose and repair.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 5:27pm
Be sure to reseal the hydraulic cylinder that's in there as well. Order a seal kit from AGCO as per the tractor serial number. Either hose or seals are leaking. Replace both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 8:08pm
A 3 bar grill D17, gas or diesel? I like that year D14, D17.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Koda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2023 at 4:42am
Not a 3 bar.  It is gas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadCow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2024 at 10:43am
Do you have to split the tractor to do this? My arms on my D15 are starting to drift down, and I think it's an internal leak, I don't see anything exterior, and there's fluid leaking from the PTO shaft cover plate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2024 at 11:03am
Hold on !! Until your hydraulic sump oil level goes DOWN and the transmission oil level goes UP, you don't have a bad lift arm hose or lift cylinder packing. A leaking PTO seal is a leaking PTO seal. A hydraulic pump that won't hold a load can be the hold valve internally leaking but will cause zero oil transfer problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Koda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2024 at 12:02pm
The problem with mine turned out to be the packing in the lift cylinder.  The internal hose appeared to have been replaced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadCow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2024 at 2:15pm
Doc in to save the day. Looks like I have another reason to inspect my hydraulic pump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSTROM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2024 at 3:21pm
I'm having the same issues with my D17, which I'm trying to start using for food plot work.  Just bought and cut down a chisel plow and it still wont lift it.  Weak 3 point lifting, hyd oil was low, trans oil high.  Sounds like Doc's Dx.   I think I have a manual here somewhere - I need to find it, but have never split a tractor before.

Should it lift this, if working well?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2024 at 3:58pm
You need to get a 5,000 psi gauge and plug it in to your remote outlet. Raise the lift/lower lever to attempt to lift the implement and see what the gauge reads. Should read upwards of 3,000 psi if it lifts the load. Less than that and no lift the load means you have pump issues or oil transfering problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSTROM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2024 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

You need to get a 5,000 psi gauge and plug it in to your remote outlet. Raise the lift/lower lever to attempt to lift the implement and see what the gauge reads. Should read upwards of 3,000 psi if it lifts the load. Less than that and no lift the load means you have pump issues or oil transfering problems.


That's my plan.  Does there need to be weight/load on the arms?  Thanks.



Edited by GSTROM99 - 12 Mar 2024 at 4:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2024 at 4:43pm
Ideally, the arms raise fully to the top and then the gauge reaches it's peak reading. If it doesn't lift the load and the pressure reads 3,000+ psi, the load is too heavy for the tractor. If it doesn't lift the load and the reading is less than 3,000 psi you have problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSTROM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2024 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

Ideally, the arms raise fully to the top and then the gauge reaches it's peak reading. If it doesn't lift the load and the pressure reads 3,000+ psi, the load is too heavy for the tractor. If it doesn't lift the load and the reading is less than 3,000 psi you have problems.


Okay.  So, rather than connect the gauge to a male hose end and plug it in to the remote, I need to plumb it into one of the lines.  Which one?




Edited by GSTROM99 - 12 Mar 2024 at 7:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSTROM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2024 at 8:45pm
Doc:  I re-read your post.  Just plug it into the remote, then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2024 at 9:30pm
Plug into the remote outlet coupler and operate whatever levers it takes to make the arms raise to the top.         EDIT:  I can't say I've ever seen a remote valve plumbed like that one. Don't know how it even works. All wrong as far as I'm concerned. Remote female coupler needs to be connected on the Transport valve, not a hose. "IN" port on the remote valve connects thru a hose plugged into the Transport valve with female tip. "OUT" port on remote valve tees into a return hose going back into the sump under the fuel sediment bowl. The existing tee on yours doesn't belong there. When using lift arms, unplug the hose and let it hang for max hyd pressure to lift arms. Plumbed all wrong and cannot work correctly or powerfully.

Edited by DrAllis - 13 Mar 2024 at 7:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSTROM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2024 at 7:48am
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

  I can't say I've ever seen a remote valve plumbed like that one. Don't know how it even works. All wrong as far as I'm concerned. 


Ha!  I'm glad I posted that pic.  I don't know if the remote DOES work.  I didn't install that, nor have I ever used it.  I've only had this tractor for a few years, and only recently installed the 3 point conversion to even try to raise anything.  I will have to re-do that too (or maybe just remove it completely).  The rear remote is not needed for the lift arms to work, is it?  

Thanks!!!


Edited by GSTROM99 - 13 Mar 2024 at 7:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2024 at 8:19am
EXTRA dual-acting remote valve not needed. Where your hose is connected to the Transport valve is normally where the remote female coupler is installed. You'll have to remove the tee to make things work as OEM. Be sure to use two open end wrenches on that brass elbow or you will crush it/ruin it.

Edited by DrAllis - 13 Mar 2024 at 11:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2024 at 12:14pm
Here's a picture of how I connected my vavle a year ago. Mine is plugged into the remote and can be disconnected to use your standard high pressure system cylinder.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatz in NE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2024 at 1:43pm
In reference to the hydraulics ….. Our ‘58 D17 Diesel had sufficient hydraulic power to lift the entire wide front end off the ground.  We discovered this when using our home-built platform to transport a rotary hoe across a small stream.  I had to climb on the front axle to add some more weight while Dad drove the tractor.  Nearly got my toes smashed doing so.

Edited by Gatz in NE - 13 Mar 2024 at 1:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2024 at 5:34pm
Agreed. A healthy hydraulic system can usually raise an unweighted front end off the ground.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSTROM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2024 at 7:48pm
Thanks all.  As I said, I have work to do... Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSTROM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2024 at 5:22pm
Well, my problem is fixed.  I only had 2k psi at the coupler - turns out they plumbed in a "4 way" control valve (which I think had a low by-pass setting), but with an extra pressure hose (thanks Doc).  I just took off the 4 way valve setup and returned it to original - with one coupler coming off the transport valve.  Got 3200 psi there now.  It lifts the chisel plow with ease.  I'm happy.  Thanks all.




Edited by GSTROM99 - 15 Mar 2024 at 5:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2024 at 6:14am
Most all of those add-on valves are set at 2,000 psi, as that was the industry standard for that time in history. 

Edited by DrAllis - 16 Mar 2024 at 6:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSTROM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2024 at 8:52am
... and my Traction Booster gauge came back to life too.  It won't be used of course, since I won't be pulling via the bottom snap coupler link/hook.


Edited by GSTROM99 - 16 Mar 2024 at 8:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis2766 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2024 at 6:48pm
Looks like you have a Cross aftermarket 3 point on your D17, you will still be pulling off the snap coupler because the 3 point attaches to the drawbar which attaches to the snap coupler bell.
190XT Series III, D17 Series IV, D15 Series II, All Crop 66 and a whole mess of equipment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSTROM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 7:28am
You're right.  I forgot that I had to re-mount the drawbar into the coupler.  I stand corrected.  Embarrassed


Edited by GSTROM99 - 17 Mar 2024 at 7:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 8:03pm
now you have to weld the digger back together 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GSTROM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 9:14pm
Na, not gonna do that.  I'll replace the bad points and run it with 6.  If it pulls real easy, I can add wings and two points, at the front.  The frame came with the wing mounting holes at the front corners already.  I think pulling 8 shanks would be hard, with only fair tires and not much added fluid in the tires  (20%?) now.
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