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JC-WI 
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
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 Topic: 170 governor failure
Posted: 12 Aug 2023 at 8:44pm |
Wednesday I lent my 170 out to rake hay... next phone call says it
went full throttle revving real fast and wouldn't shut down... finally
killed it standing on brakes... on a bridge. Told him to put it in high
gear and get it off the bridge so people could pass and stand on the
brakes to keep the rpms down... and then get somebody to drag it off
the road and unhook the rake and tow it home... That evening I looked
at it and all linkages were hooked up, but throttle linkage didn't move
far enough to idle. Wondered if buttfly had lost its screws but dropped
the carb down and it looked okay. Today I took the gov . off thinking
maybe it lost a pin in the fork shaft... Nope... Here is what I found. Not
what I wanted to see. Wondering if the second pin is still in the
front timing cover or can it make its way down to the pan?
This is the tractor I had cut the oil filter apart and found fine metal
in it and replaced all the mains and rods but metal wasn't from them.
Must have been from the governor already on it's way out...? Do I drop
the pan again or just get new gear and weights and put it back together
again and change oil in it, or just find a nice used gov. assembly and
bolt it on and go? Just why did this fail, and break the
ears off the gear and break the ears off the weights? One weight broke
loose and then had a chain reaction as it couldn't escape the confines
in the housing? Best to buy new or go with good used ones? Looked on the web for parts and talk about insanity for new and used on fleebag. SHEESH!!!
OK, Thanks for looking. jc
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MACK
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Posted: 12 Aug 2023 at 8:55pm |
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Best to pull front cover along with pan and get all the parts out. Also check the gears for broken or rough teeth. Rough gears will set up a vibration causing just what happened. Get new parts. MACK
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DrAllis
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Posted: 13 Aug 2023 at 6:09am |
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Governor weights and pins/clips have (for me) always been a maintenance item. Always replace at engine overhaul time and probably once mid-way thru the 3500 to 4000 hr service life of an engine OH. I many times did it when doing a complete tune-up service. Doing this helps keep the chances of an explosion from happening. When ordering parts, the 170 and 175 governor weights themselves are unique and are not used anywhere else in the 201/226 engine family. If these weights aren't available, you'll have to use weights from a WC-WD-D17 engine AND change the governor spring to a D-17 spring to get your 2,000 RPM high idle speed.
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JC-WI
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Posted: 13 Aug 2023 at 2:14pm |
What made them 'unique'? Were they lighter in weight or just a little different configuration, like being made out of aluminum and putting a metal ramp in for the thrust bearing carrier to ride against? I see in the DJS tractor parts book, they are listing gov weights for WC through to 175 replacing part numbers of 229980, 70229980 They also replace the weights for combines 100 110, E, Ell, Elll. They must be unifying all the weights into one type of weight?
My guess for failure is one ear on a weight cracked and broke that allowed the weight to flop around and the pin to migrate out and started hitting the housing which broke the ears on the gear and broke the weight off entirely, then the weight got caught in the opposite weight and broke that off and thus the runaway engine. Thanks Mack and Doc for the replies.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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DrAllis
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Posted: 13 Aug 2023 at 2:28pm |
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They are indeed unique !! They are much lighter and have a different ramp fulcrum on them. The WC-WD-WD45-D17 weight assemblies are identical. The E and E3 combine weights are the same but have a different ramp fulcrum on them. The 170-175 are different on both.
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HudCo
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Posted: 13 Aug 2023 at 11:07pm |
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i will guess that the new govenor parts that you get no matter what the part numbers say they are will be wd 45 specs
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Aug 2023 at 6:18am |
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So, let this be a "public service announcement" !!! For the most part, governor weights fly apart because they are WORN OUT !! The pivot holes get worn badly and eventually break thru the hole and then it's like a hand grenade going off. There are exceptions to this, as the oldest D-17's with the governor gear driving the power steering pump and the gear gets loose on the PS pumps drive shaft causing bad things to happen. There is also the scenario where the timing gears (camshaft) are worn causing the camshaft to rotate in herks and jerks instead of smoothly spinning. This situation would usually be related to when the engine was overhauled, the gears were suspect to being replaced then, instead of letting them go for another 4,000 hrs of run time. And finally, when governor weights have exploded, the repair person (you too gals) thinks they can just replace the governor gear and weights/pins and get on with life. Maybe.....for a while, when it does it again because of damaged gear teeth on the camshaft and maybe crankshaft gear. SMOOOOOTH running is key to long governor life. This ends the public service announcement. Governor weights are a maintenance item !! They do NOT last forever.
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WF owner
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Posted: 14 Aug 2023 at 7:42am |
I'm curious.
Why would the engine not shut down?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Aug 2023 at 8:17am |
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Have to turn off the ignition key !! No need to kill it by standing on the brakes.
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JC-WI
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Posted: 14 Aug 2023 at 11:37am |
Thanks Doc for the public service announcement. Good explanation of possibly what happened. thought maybe the hairpin or 'e' clip might have come off to allow pin to move over and start the cause of what happened, but worn gov weight holes seems more plausible.
WF, Think the fellow got real excited when the tractor lurched forward and took off screaming down the road. when he reached up and turned the key and expecting it to just stop with all the inertia in the engine, it didn't slow down instantly so he had to apply the brakes to it. I know I started it afterwards and it took off like a bullet and had not got to top end and I was already turning the key off it took a few moments to finally stop. I took out a few more pieces of the gov. weight last night and I haven't found the steel pin yet... so it is a take the pan and cover off for sure and check gears out. Thanks
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Steve A
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Posted: 14 Aug 2023 at 6:43pm |
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That's a major bite in the shorts, JC. Hope it didn't do more damage.
Just for my own knowledge: What's the trade off on the WD-45, D-17 weights? less HP, less performance under load?
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MACK
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Posted: 14 Aug 2023 at 9:11pm |
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It would have idled down if throttle was pushed all the way closed. MACK
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Aug 2023 at 9:41pm |
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WC-WD-WD45-D17 weights (when properly adjusted) have a 300 RPM droop from high idle (no load) to full load (full open carburetor butterfly). Gleaner E/E3 weights are about 150 RPM droop, much quicker. Both of these weights weigh the same and are heavy. The 170/175 weights are about a 200 RPM droop. The 170/175 weights are much lighter than the other weights. I believe this was an attempt to reduce governor weight explosions, and remember the 180 4-cylinder gas tractor engine was going to run at 2,200 RPM high idle, so lighter weights were a good idea. These droop numbers were by design and that's the way the Engineers of the day wanted it to be.
Edited by DrAllis - 14 Aug 2023 at 10:11pm
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JC-WI
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Posted: 15 Aug 2023 at 3:26am |
"
It would have idled down if throttle was pushed all the way closed. " Mack, That's what we would have expected, but when shrapnel piled up under the linkage, it couldn't shut down. This is what I found when taking cover off very carefully. I didn't place the broken parts in the cover. And under the fork assembly linkage. Linkage was blocked from closing.
Steve yea quite a bite in the shorts. Got price quote for genuine allis parts, Ouch!
800 for gear, 105 per weight, and 21 per pin, - thousand and fifty-two bucks. Called an old dealer and he had actual 170/175 weights for 30 bucks each and 8 bucks a pin and no gear on the shelf but could order an aftermarket for 150. Thinking a good used gov gear would be better than an after market gear?
Really hate the thought of having to take it apart again but sure don't want more damage from a pin some where getting into a gear and causing more destruction later on.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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