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TomYaz 
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 Topic: DeadBeats
Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 3:29pm |
some FYI for vendors here:
I at times offer goods ahead of shipment... usually works out fine 99.9% of the time.
But sometimes I dont get paid. I have little recourse other than to sell the invoice to a collection agency for nothing, but not before I put in my licks.
In this case a guy Wayne Flewelling who owns a honey business has refused to pay: johnwaynehoney.com ..click this google search and scroll to the bottom:
This other deadbeat Dan Cassill who is involved in the poppinjohnnies tractor club of Iowa:
Here is how I dealt with them...again bottom of page
The mere act of posting here will come up in a search sooner or later. If these folks pay up, well, all is forgiven and I will note on the post that they have paid. But they will have to get additional parts elsewhere.
Next place I will post is ripoffreport.com
Lesson: Dont get my inner kitty riled up! (see avatar)
Edited by TomYaz - 16 Dec 2010 at 12:57pm
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LouSWPA
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Location: Clinton, Pa
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 3:38pm |
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Tom, I feel your pain, but just be careful you don't put yourself in a position to get sued. You could be completely right, and still get sued.
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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TomYaz
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 3:51pm |
 LouSWPA wrote:
Tom, I feel your pain, but just be careful you don't put yourself in a position to get sued. You could be completely right, and still get sued. |
Yep. And they would lose.
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 4:03pm |
TomYaz wrote:
LouSWPA wrote:
Tom, I feel your pain, but just be careful you don't put yourself in a position to get sued. You could be completely right, and still get sued. |
Yep. And they would lose. |
OK, but how much will it cost you to defend yourself. Like I said I completely understand your situation, but you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot.
Just another thought, for what it's worth. I have always felt that anonymous acts were rather cowardly. You don't want to wreck your own character just because some other looser wrecked his. JMHO
Edited by LouSWPA - 15 Dec 2010 at 4:05pm
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 4:25pm |
that is one problem with posting anything to places on the INTERNET, somewhere, somehow it ends up in some search engine under your name or the product, part or comment.
How or what is posted you may never know but someone somewhere will have access or a view of your dealings , thoughts, or beliefs.
As for the deadbeats, there are lots of them out there, always have been and always will be those that figure they are above or beyond having a honest reputation or moral characters.
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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TomYaz
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 5:11pm |
LouSWPA wrote:
TomYaz wrote:
LouSWPA wrote:
Tom, I feel your pain, but just be careful you don't put yourself in a position to get sued. You could be completely right, and still get sued. |
Yep. And they would lose. |
OK, but how much will it cost you to defend yourself. Like I said I completely understand your situation, but you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot.
Just another thought, for what it's worth. I have always felt that anonymous acts were rather cowardly. You don't want to wreck your own character just because some other looser wrecked his. JMHO |
The chance of that happening is remote. If you look at my post all I was careful enough to only say I have not received payment. Thats it. So what are they going to sue for? If they cant prove they paid for said item then they have no case. Then I would countersue for legal expense. So really I dont see how calling out a non-payment impunes my character as I am not doing anything disreputable. Oh and btw if you read the post I used my name, so the cowardly label doesnt apply becasue I agree with you on that.
Edited by TomYaz - 15 Dec 2010 at 5:19pm
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macec3(TX)
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 5:14pm |
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I hounded a man for 22 months. Guess he got tired of hearing from me. He finally paid.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 5:15pm |
Coke-in-MN wrote:
that is one problem with posting anything to places on the INTERNET, somewhere, somehow it ends up in some search engine under your name or the product, part or comment.
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Exactly why I did it. In my case its a tool, not a problem. Shame and embarressment sometimes work. As for me, Hopefully people will pickup on the fact that I dont bend over too willingly.
Edited by TomYaz - 15 Dec 2010 at 5:15pm
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michaelwis
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 5:15pm |
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I hope 14family farms from Ohio are listening .......
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WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60 GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer
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ChuckLuedtkeSEWI
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 5:23pm |
I with you on this one Tom. If nothing comes out of it, at least you got your satisfaction of trying something. I can see the other's points of not getting in trouble but I wouldn't stand for it either. Having someone in my own family who is less then honest on more then one occasion, I know what it's like to have to deal with a lowlife. I have spent most of my life proving that I'm not like my sibling, and I don't know where he got it from because if you ever dealt with my old man, you would see where the honesty and integrity that "most" of our family has came from. I still remember one Christmas they went to a store and bought some things, one thing in particular was a radio for my niece. When they got home, they realized they didn't pay for it, and it wasn't listed on the receipt. So the next day my dad went it, and showed the manager the receipt where it wasn't on there, and paid for it. He even took a marker and blacked out the name and checkout number etc. off of the receipt so that the manager wouldn't know who did it so noone got fired right before Christmas.
Edited by ChuckLuedtkeSEWI - 15 Dec 2010 at 5:24pm
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1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221
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Dick L
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 5:50pm |
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Tom, I have owned my own business since 1976. Some years I have done over 2 million in gross sales. Never once did I or even think of going public with a customer not paying me in a reasonable time. I never once called the customer and threaten them with any type of action. In letting them know that I understood times sometimes get tuff but I needed paid as soon as they could find the money. I would also suggest that they make payments toward the invoice. The old saying that you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar actually works. I have lost very little over the many years and that that I did lose I chalked up to life and moved on. (without telling it publicly)
What you have done here I would suspect has done you more harm than it has the people that have not paid you. Knowing that you have no problem of airing dirty laundry would cause me to wonder why I would want to take a chance on doing business with you.
I know know others will think the same as me and not let you know how they take your post. You are free to continue to post all non paying customers and call them names such as deadbeats if you get satisfaction from it. I just know my name will not be one of them.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:13pm |
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Dead beats. Call that Bashing them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with FACTS
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:20pm |
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I agree with Dick somewhat. However, the stigma of poor/bad credit isn't what it once was. There once was a time that folks wouldn't consider walking out on a bill, nowadays it's becoming common. My wife pointed that out to me at lunch today. We usually eat at a Hy Vee deli where you are supposed to pay as you leave. The folks that sat behind us that day left the "check" with the dirty dishes. I have no problem with Tom trying to "shame" non payers into paying up. Not paying is the same as shoplifting/stealing.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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michaelwis
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:24pm |
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Translation : A spade is a spade ..
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WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60 GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:27pm |
TomYaz wrote:
LouSWPA wrote:
TomYaz wrote:
LouSWPA wrote:
Tom, I feel your pain, but just be careful you don't put yourself in a position to get sued. You could be completely right, and still get sued. |
Yep. And they would lose. |
OK, but how much will it cost you to defend yourself. Like I said I completely understand your situation, but you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot.
Just another thought, for what it's worth. I have always felt that anonymous acts were rather cowardly. You don't want to wreck your own character just because some other looser wrecked his. JMHO |
OH, I musta read the wrong one on the second fellow, there was one from a Jane Doe, my apology.
The chance of that happening is remote. If you look at my post all I was careful enough to only say I have not received payment. Thats it. So what are they going to sue for? If they cant prove they paid for said item then they have no case. Then I would countersue for legal expense. So really I dont see how calling out a non-payment impunes my character as I am not doing anything disreputable. Oh and btw if you read the post I used my name, so the cowardly label doesnt apply becasue I agree with you on that.
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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tomdavison
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Joined: 03 May 2010
Location: Canton, PA
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:28pm |
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I have recremtly retired from over 35 years in my own accounting/tax practice. I did the same as Dick and never hounded anyone for payment. Over this period, except for 2 large balances owed to me, I never failed to be paid for most of my services, even though I waided a long time for some of the payments. I attended classes on practice management, and all of them stressed to not sue for an amount owed. Things become turned around in a court, and you may end up losing, and worst, will end up paying for damages to the one that you sued. Again, I agree with Dick, you may harm your own name more than you harm theirs. Don't worry, I will still deal with you.
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:33pm |
Huh, wonder how that happened? My reply came before Toms response in the last post.
In any case, my mistake, Tom, the second fellow on your list appears to have someone else unhappy with them also, Jane Doe. I just assumed it was you, because it sounded similar to what you were saying. Anyways, my apologies!
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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TomYaz
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:35pm |
Dick L wrote:
Tom, I have owned my own business since 1976. Some years I have done over 2 million in gross sales. Never once did I or even think of going public with a customer not paying me in a reasonable time. I never once called the customer and threaten them with any type of action. In letting them know that I understood times sometimes get tuff but I needed paid as soon as they could find the money. I would also suggest that they make payments toward the invoice. The old saying that you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar actually works. I have lost very little over the many years and that that I did lose I chalked up to life and moved on. (without telling it publicly)
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Well Dick, I think over a year ,in the one case), and five months in the other is more than reasonable. If someone was hard up for money (I've been there) I would be just fine with payments. But each time I have called, I was never told they where hard up for cash. I was told payment was coming. If they would have told me they were hard up I would have suggested payments like you said.
Dick L wrote:
What you have done here I would suspect has done you more harm than it has the people that have not paid you. Knowing that you have no problem of airing dirty laundry would cause me to wonder why I would want to take a chance on doing business with you.
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If you are a man of character, fearing my wrath should not be a concern. I didnt take this action lightly. I sent the invoices again with a note 30 days ago stating I would do this if payment not received. Actually I am a very reasonable guy to deal with. But dont mistake my kindness for weakness.
Dick L wrote:
I know know others will think the same as me and not let you know how they take your post. You are free to continue to post all non paying customers and call them names such as deadbeats if you get satisfaction from it. I just know my name will not be one of them.
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Again if you read the postings I made on uradeadbeat.com I did no name calling. I simply stated I have not received payment. Nothing more. Glad you decided to never be a non-paying customer.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:43pm |
Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:
I agree with Dick somewhat. However, the stigma of poor/bad credit isn't what it once was. There once was a time that folks wouldn't consider walking out on a bill, nowadays it's becoming common. My wife pointed that out to me at lunch today. We usually eat at a Hy Vee deli where you are supposed to pay as you leave. The folks that sat behind us that day left the "check" with the dirty dishes. I have no problem with Tom trying to "shame" non payers into paying up. Not paying is the same as shoplifting/stealing. |
My little hobby business cant take hits like this and survive. I dont take credit cards as my volume of business doesnt justify the added expense. I also realize that demanding payment up via check wastes a lot of valuabe time for farmers. I really dont ship out parts ahead of payment anymore from new customers because of these non-payers. If shaming doesnt work I would hope that "airing my dirty laundry" will warn other business people about these non-payers as a public service.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:49pm |
tomdavison wrote:
I have recremtly retired from over 35 years in my own accounting/tax practice. I did the same as Dick and never hounded anyone for payment. Over this period, except for 2 large balances owed to me, I never failed to be paid for most of my services, even though I waided a long time for some of the payments. I attended classes on practice management, and all of them stressed to not sue for an amount owed. Things become turned around in a court, and you may end up losing, and worst, will end up paying for damages to the one that you sued. Again, I agree with Dick, you may harm your own name more than you harm theirs. Don't worry, I will still deal with you. |
I really have to question any advice that says never litigate on money owed. I seem to hear about such cases in the news quite regularly. Dont we have small claims courts? Speaking of which, I would have done that but the expense to go to a court in Iowa is kinda not worth it. I dont have much other recourse.
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Ryan Renko
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 6:54pm |
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I'm glad I didnt see my name mentioned!! LOL Keep up the great work. I will order more than one belt next time because the 66 is gunna need new cylinder bars for wheat. Ryan
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TomYaz
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 7:06pm |
Ryan Renko wrote:
I'm glad I didnt see my name mentioned!! LOL Keep up the great work. I will order more than one belt next time because the 66 is gunna need new cylinder bars for wheat. Ryan |
You were late a time or two werent you? LOL!! Your going to need a $1000 security deposit if you want bars! LOL! Actually I am placing my bar order this month. If you want a set you have to let me know ASAP. Wont place another order for at least a year or more....
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TomYaz
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 7:09pm |
LouSWPA wrote:
Huh, wonder how that happened? My reply came before Toms response in the last post.
In any case, my mistake, Tom, the second fellow on your list appears to have someone else unhappy with them also, Jane Doe. I just assumed it was you, because it sounded similar to what you were saying. Anyways, my apologies! |
No prob....
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Jamie (KY)
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 7:09pm |
TomYaz, I applaud you. I'm not a legal expert of have no experience with this type of situation, but applaud your thinking.
To me this is no different than the local sheriff's office posting people's names that have failed to pay their property taxes from the previous year in January. It becomes common knowledge and public. If they don't like it, then pay up.
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Just when I thought I was finishing my "honey-do-list", she turned the page!!!
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GARY(OH/IN)
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 7:11pm |
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We(generally my wife) go to court on a regular basis. It is now to the point where there is NO stigma among their peers when this type of person does not pay their obligations. We were there just this morning regarding an arson case involving two minor boys. The only way to collect on a debt is if they something from you then you have a chance at getting the old debt.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 7:20pm |
Jamie (KY) wrote:
TomYaz, I applaud you. I'm not a legal expert of have no experience with this type of situation, but applaud your thinking.
To me this is no different than the local sheriff's office posting people's names that have failed to pay their property taxes from the previous year in January. It becomes common knowledge and public. If they don't like it, then pay up. |
Thanks...Yep just trying to get the word out with the facts and nothing more. no nasty names etc...If they pay I will update the post accordingly with no malice.
I tried to have them reported to a credit bureau..but I needed to have so many thousands in sales per month to be able to report to them. I view this action as a "poor business mans credit reporting"
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monitordoc
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 7:27pm |
I HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR 28 YEARS ALWAYS OFFERING GOODS AND SERVICE BEFORE PAYMENT. SOSMETIMES HAVE HAD SLOW PAYMENT BUT ALWAYS HAVE WORKED WITH THE CUSTOMER PRIVATELY WITH 100% SUCCESS.
WHEN IT WAS MY TURN TO BE THE "DEADBEAT" WITH EXTREME MED BILLS PEOPLE WORKED WITH US AND WE MADE IT.
I KNOW THERE ARE SOME THAT BUY WITH NO INTENTION OF PAYING AND ALL I DO IS CHALK THAT UP AND MOVE ON.
I GUESS I AM SAYING IS WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.
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WD,D17-S4,180,D21
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omahagreg
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 7:54pm |
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When I had my own kitchen/bath remodeling business, a friend of my Dad's hired me to do his kitchen. I quoted him this ridiculously low price, with payment when done. When I submitted the bill, he said he wanted to make payments. I had no choice, so came up with a monthly payment, with interest, and date due,wrote it up and we both signed it. First payment, OK, second was late. Third was even later-I had to call him and tell him I was NOT a bank, and would not tolerate any late payments from then on. He finally got the message and got it paid off.
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Greg Kroeker
1950 WD with wide front and Freeman trip loader
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 15 Dec 2010 at 11:37pm |
After 30 + years of excavating and septic work and with hundreds of good customers it is a shame the bad ones make the court the way of doing business. over the years I only had a couple of bad customers and I should have heeded the feeling I first had they might be problems.
On none of my jobs did i ask for payment up front, and in many cases I had thousands of dollars in materials out of my own pocket involved but with only a handshake contract.
Luckily the deadbeat jobs were labor jobs and yes I lost a lot on them but least I did not have to make excuses to my suppliers of why I could not pay. Being a banker is or was not my field of work, earth moving and health related issues with septic systems were.
Last big one that soured me and made me retire from customer work was a $12,000 job I ended up selling to a collection agency for $1500. I lost over $6,000 on that job not counting my labor, design time, and the trouble of going to court to testify when the agency filed and won a settlement in District court.
Found out then these people had numerous people they had defrauded and bilked on many home improvements around their place.
LOW LIFE'S prey on good people, honest people and anyone else they think they can get away with cheating on .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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JC-WI
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Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 12:20am |
"would countersue for legal expense. " Don't think you can when dealing in small claims court.
Mom always said don't speak ill of others. For some reason I just cannot wrap my mind around why I can't tell the truth of some garbage ... I always figure that if Jack S. screwed you on a deal or did something like lie steal or ...whatever that effects others, People should know to be aware of the character so they don't get taken. ... It is like you have a daughter and she is going out on a date with a guy, and his character is forcing himself on/into girls, Would you not want to know about the guy's character before your daughter went out with this piece of dung? - If I knew of this nutjob's character, would you like me to tell you or not to tell you and let you find it out the hard unpleasant way?
It doesn't matter if its the daqughter or money or deals or government, They all should have good reputations or be known for whothey really are.
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