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Codger 
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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 Topic: Track tensioner stuck:
Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 3:11pm |
Went over with my new "Milwaukee" 18V grease gun and genuine "Lock-N-Lube" grease coupler and tensioned the right track without issue. Moving to the left track, the front idler moved about 1/4" and froze solid taking all the pressure the gun would administer but is frozen solid in place. I then drove the tractor fore and aft with slight turns both directions to attempt to get the adjuster to move but no luck so far. I did not remove any zerks to allow the grease to escape and allow pushback of the tensioner assembly, but that may be next. In the attached diagram from the parts manual, #7 is the part that pushes out from #9A and this "piston" is seemingly frozen in the bore of #9A. The exterior of #7 is quite crusty from rust buildup on both sides so going to clean these up with a sanding belt once the tracks are tight. I think the rear grease zerks were not known about in the part #9A as the undercarriage manual does not show they exist, but the parts manual for the machine shows, but does not identify them as can be seen here:
The rear boss on part #9A does not exist on the photo from the undercarriage manual but is shown as round and smooth. Maybe this was a later addition by AC? I don't know but both zerks on each side took pressure easily and do not leak off.
Snip from the undercarriage manual:
Edited by Codger - 11 Dec 2022 at 4:36pm
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 4:48pm |
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The one back toward the piston only lubes that section so corrosion does not destroy but mung will build up, the zerk in the U of the Yoke is the tension set point so if has locked will need to collapse and try again see if will push the mung buildup out. If not will need to come apart.
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Codger
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Posted: 11 Dec 2022 at 5:24pm |
Agree. I didn't have a source of heat with me and very limited tools but I want to ensure the tracks are nowhere near loose. Currently I've set the right track at 1.50" droop between grousers on idler and support roller where the left track is just over 2.00" droop. It won't come off but I'll get it working correctly prior to pushing dirt.
I'll take a 10 ton port o power, come a long, socket set to remove the zerk, and valve in the yoke, and sandpaper roll to clean up the piston rod. I'll then roll the track back with the ram or winch shoving the idler rearward, and then reinstall parts, and pump the cavity again. I'd wager the method will break it free easily but I don't want to score the bore in the yoke from the rusted exterior surface of the piston. The idler did move just a bit prior to freezing in place, but this thing hasn't seen a grease gun since the very early 2000's at last use.
Need to get all the linkages adjusted and greased up too. The right steering clutch is slow to reengage unless you shove the release handle up manually. The left clutch pops right in when the handle is released. Both clutches release immediately with pulling on the handle(s) so probably old tacky grease causing a dampening effect. Being cold doesn't help matters.
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Codger
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Posted: 12 Dec 2022 at 7:00am |
Rounded up emery cloth rolls in both 150, and 320 grit this morning with enough quantity to polish up the piston(s) nicely. Also going to take some mineral spirits to use as a sanding lubricant and clean up solvent. Former owner will bring his mini excavator up the hill if needed to shove the idler back by pushing the track with his bucket. Hopefully the idler breaks free so I'm not jacking the tractor up in a soft gravel parking area; but we'll see.
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Doughd16b
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Joined: 01 Sep 2022
Location: Nc
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Posted: 12 Dec 2022 at 10:11am |
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I have the same set up on an 11ep, the rear fitting is just to lube the wear ring and Before u do do anything else I would change the zerk because I had the same problem pumping up the track on my 690 excavator after I got the track back on and it just dead headed, changed zerk and back to normal. I might add if u do take the piston out u need to drill and tap to put a plug in it too knock the piston out. My 16b piston has a threaded hole in it so u can use a slide hammer to get it out but not on what you're working on, it can be real tough to get it out without breaking something
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AC Mel
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Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
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Posted: 12 Dec 2022 at 11:07am |
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Rob.....Ok i feel compelled to speak.....probably having done more of these than any man alive. Our experience when one got stuck as you describe...it would typically be the #5 piston seal would break....split...have a crack in it that pressure from the grease gun would push that piece up into the #7 piston....where it would wedge in there and stop everything. If the grease gun just pushes grease out alongside the piston then the seal is just cracked. As Dave talks about....you might try to collapse the piston. You can remove #4 valve with a 3/4'' socket...don't need to remove the zerk. You need to collapse the assembly as much as possible to get it out.....and sometimes a piece of equipment or jack to press the idler ahead as far as possible. The#9 snap ring can be tough to get out....the wear ring can be very uncooperative too.....More than once I have used the torch to blow them out. So for the mung that builds up in there....I worry more about the surface of the yoke bore....where the seal meets than the #7 piston surface. As Doug mentioned you might change the zerk......I would change the whole valve...is the other side ok? I would unscrew it ...not worrying about what little bit of grease come out if it retracts.
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 12 Dec 2022 at 12:29pm |
never understood why the move to hydraulic was made. got several 70 years old screw type still work just fine and never leak or need seals replaced.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 12 Dec 2022 at 12:33pm
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Codger
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Posted: 12 Dec 2022 at 1:53pm |
Thanks guys for chiming in. Both zerks seem to be functioning properly and take grease easily. Initially they both took many pumps but now just a few after an overnight setting. So far there has been no external grease leakage from the cavities at all I can find. I've been all over the left side yoke from over and under. Both zerks stop the flow of grease from the gun after running for a few strokes.
I ran the tractor back and forth several times and the left idler is moving just a bit with the grease pressure behind it. Still not any kind of where it should be but some movement. The left idler is back about 1/2" from the right idler. I spent not quite an hour digging out old clay and hard packed dirt from around the components and there is no grease leakage external anyplace. I would like to be able to spin the tractor around on it's tracks but I'll not tear up the driveway or parking area as it's finished. Driving straight forward and reversing with slamming the brakes does "load" the track release assemblies, and this seems to be gaining rather than stagnant.
I also cycled the blade up, down, and tilt both directions many times to purge the air, and smooth out the operation. Most every joint in the mountings/linkages are loose so I'll need to do quite a bit of line boring to bring things back to where they need to be. The cylinder trunions on the sides of the radiator shell jump almost 1/8" before the blade starts lifting there is so much slop in this area. The cylinder rod eyes where they pin to the blade jump a bit also and will be "trued up" over the winter months. Hydraulics have smoothed out, but still have some air entrainment which is decreasing with use.
Another thing I've noticed, the transmission shifting is much more crisp or smart than when I started. Don't know if this is because the tractor was up to operating temperature, or things are sealing up from the extended dormancy endured. There is no slop or delay when forward to reverse or vice versa is selected under power. Engaging power responds well when the decelerator pedal is released too.
The engine started surging so I shut down and checked the fuel tank dipstick. Didn't know how much fuel was in it but it's very low so will grab 20gl from the shop and get back over tomorrow.
I feel like I'm making progress albeit slow but I don't want to break anything.
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Codger
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 6:32am |
Finished up a Roadranger transmission rebuild last evening and slipped it back into the truck. Will button this job later today and get back onto my semi trailer installing the ramps and hydraulics and finally get this tractor home. Supposed to get cold later in the week when looking at the forecast. Rain starting today.
Talked to a buddy that has a machine shop last evening and I think we are going to replace the #7, and #10 parts with new as these are as rusty as a piece of steel buried in the ground 20 years. They are pitted very badly and deep. If the bore on the yoke is compromised, I can bore and sleeve it back to correct dimension once I "jig" the setup to keep the part from moving during the boring operation.
I will need to pull the idlers from the machine on both sides. With the limited traverse distance I have covered it is plain to see there is far too much "slop" in the upper and lower slide bars to carrier brackets as these parts "walk around" on the track frame. I suspect these are just worn out from the hours of use and parts will be NLA, so will have to make new, or repair the existing. There are adjusting shims, but until it's broken down and evaluated, there is no way to ascertain what is needed, (for me). A straight edge and feeler gauges don't lie once the parts are exposed.
Yesterday what I was primarily looking at was the rollers, idlers, and chains to ensure free movement of all. Nothing is frozen or binding as I had the former owner watching everything as I operated the tractor. None of the rollers were wollering around, no tight spots in the chains, and all rotated true I'm told.
Hope to get back on this task later today but have a few things going on in the shop. May, or may not get back over later in the afternoon.
Feel free to contribute as I'm learning as I go along. No experience in most of what I'm doing and although in my 60's now doesn't mean I'm done learning of new things.
Thanks,
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Doughd16b
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 7:30am |
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Yeah dancing front idler will kill the track tensioner seal. This was a major problem with my 11ep before we parked it,I could put a new seal in and in 3 hours it would break. I was going to split track and tighten them up but bought my 16b and as the saying goes the rest is history
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Codger
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 7:48am |
I can see how that could happen easily when the tracks are tensioned correctly. This one is not bad and probably about 1/8" is all they are moving but it is noticeable to me from the seat. I was watching the bearings in the idlers very closely and they don't appear to have any slop in them at all as were rigid. The driveway rock was initially hard so the tractor bouncing on the grousers made movement easy to see.
I wanted the 11B as it's large enough to work but not too heavy for me to move easily. I still have my old B, and R model Mack trucks from many years ago, but cannot justify the insurance costs to operate them without actual "work" for them to perform. Getting ready to build a new house, and take down and re erect my existing shop building on a new property, (bringing both together) so moving forward with this project. I don't tend to run to destruction so will address known deficiencies prior to placing in operation.
Thanks,
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Codger
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Posted: 13 Dec 2022 at 7:38pm |
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Didn't go over to the tractor today. It started raining early on and I had a fuel tank arrive so jumped onto that job and got it wrapped. Supposed to be mild tomorrow but rainy so don't know if I'll get over there or not as have other jobs to knock out before it gets cold.
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Codger
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Posted: 18 Dec 2022 at 7:56am |
Was able to finesse the frozen adjuster free rather than force the issue and track adjusted properly. Will probably break tracks and replace pistons and push bars on both sides citing rust and pitting to the surfaces. No grease leakage at all externally through the seals I've noticed.
I can plainly see where the slide carriages for the idlers have room to be worked with. This should not present problems once the tracks are clear and area free of encumbrances. Track frame appears to have minor wear also which I expect is normal but this can be welded up and surface ground flat easily.
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Lazyts
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Posted: 19 Dec 2022 at 9:12pm |
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The 11-B track adjusters are called Hydra-Juster tensioners, made by Henderson Mfg in Pittsburgh Texas. I think they are still in business and sell parts too.
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Codger
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Posted: 20 Dec 2022 at 5:59am |
 Lazyts wrote:
The 11-B track adjusters are called Hydra-Juster tensioners, made by Henderson Mfg in Pittsburgh Texas. I think they are still in business and sell parts too. |
I remember that vendor name from the past, but would not have had you not mentioned it. Thanks.
Tracks have remained tensioned for a few days now and not leaked off. I ran the tractor fore and aft again several times and it starts easily when in the low to mid 20's temperature range jumping right into gear after a short warm up without delay.
I roughly measured exterior dimensions of parts mentioned earlier for replacement and a buddy has stock that will work. I think if these corroded parts are renewed, they will last the life of the tractor. These parts being encased in the mud for years was detrimental to their service life IMO.
Fuel truck driver topped off the tractor with red diesel. I ordered 25 gallons just in case I needed to remove the fuel tank for any reason; don't know where that got misconstrued but oh well..... I seem to remember a valve in the tank's underside so shouldn't be much of a problem to drain down if needed.
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