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Kracked1 
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Joined: 24 May 2022
Location: Owatonna Mn
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 Topic: HD20 torque converter
Posted: 25 May 2022 at 6:21pm |
Anyone out there know someone that has been into one of these before? I have one that is gushing fuel out of the front seal. I know the seals are NLA. BUt I have another torque that was very weak but didnt leak. Hoping to be able to make one that doesnt leak from the two. Have the books and after treading them they talk about special wrenches needed. Not sure where to get them or if they can be made. Help please.
Kirk
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orangeman
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Posted: 25 May 2022 at 6:31pm |
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Kracked1
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Posted: 25 May 2022 at 7:08pm |
Thank you Orangeman, it is ordered. It might help some.
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AC Mel
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Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
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Posted: 15 Jul 2022 at 2:40pm |
Ok.....been emailing with Kirk on his HD20 converter problems....Don't think I was able to help him to much....but he had 2 to make one out of. Told him to take pictures to document and share with folks.....well he was having trouble loading his pictures....so I posted them up here ....and he can jump in and explain. So....hopefully the next upload will be an action video.....maybe travel to Kansas...and have HD20 races with Cal
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 15 Jul 2022 at 2:51pm |
 Woh, lets wait a few months. Next weeks forecast is looking brutal. I visited with Kirk about this but I have never been into one and that is 1 part I hope I never have to get into so I wasnt much help. With the little time I have had operating my 20 I wonder if they were always "loose" from the factory or if my converter is worn a bit. Mel maby you have some input? Seems like 3/4 throttle or more to really do anything. Were the early 21's that way? Wonder if TwinDisc has one on the shelf?  Had a guy on FB say he had converted some 20's to oil converter and it made a big difference. Id be interested to hear more.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 15 Jul 2022 at 2:53pm
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Kracked1
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Posted: 15 Jul 2022 at 5:18pm |
 AC Mel wrote:
Ok.....been emailing with Kirk on his HD20 converter problems....Don't think I was able to help him to much....but he had 2 to make one out of. Told him to take pictures to document and share with folks.....well he was having trouble loading his pictures....so I posted them up here ....and he can jump in and explain. So....hopefully the next upload will be an action video.....maybe travel to Kansas...and have HD20 races with Cal
Thanks Mel, the first three are the amazing unobtainium seal assembly. Then it is the inside of the rear turbine housing with the pocket for the over running/sprag clutch. Next is the forward turbine and bellhousing assembly. Next is a closer view of the sprag clutch without the rollers installed yet. The final pic is the rear turbine housing. We put it together yesterday only to find out when locking the rear turbine nut, that the bearing spun in the housing by hand. We were not going to put it together that way. And I wasnt going to press it apart and mess with the seal. So we made the decision to put it together with the original rear turbine housing assembly. Now this is the torque assembly that was removed with the other engine because it was very weak. But after looking at the internals and seeing nothing wrong we decided the weakness must be due to the very low fuel pressure that engine had, 20lbs at best. We are installing it in the tractor on 8/13 if all goes well. I will post updates after that.
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 16 Jul 2022 at 11:10am |
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Kirk, low pressure will do exactly that. On the first day at the big dig my machine started losing power and I couldnt back out of the cut so I limped it to the bottom of the hill and let it set for awhile. After trying it again it seemed to work for awhile then fell off. I was very nervous but happend to glance at the fuel pressure and it wasnt registering even though the engine continued to run. Turned out the supply line was plugged at the tank. After purging the blockage it has run like a top.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Kracked1
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 6:52am |
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That is great to hear. I am thinking the fuel pump on the old engine was bad. This engine runs 60-80 lbs of fuel pressure. A little high but havent checked to see if there is a piece of crud in the orfice.
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 18 Jul 2022 at 7:03am |
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If i recall it should be about 40-45 lbs wide open. I second checking the orifice on LH side of radiator at bottom. I had pressure up to 80 lbs for a short time on a job and pulled the orifice, it was partially blocked. No extra performance and it cant help those NLA seals.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Kracked1
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Posted: 19 Jul 2022 at 1:22pm |
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Book says 30-60lbs, we will check it all out and report back. Hoping it works well with no more than the 6 drops per minute leak spec.
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Kracked1
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Posted: 16 Aug 2022 at 12:47pm |
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I failed at taking pictures on Sat. But we did get the converter in and the tractor is running again. The converter works and does not leak so far. Still at 80lbs of fuel pressure so going over tomorrow to drill out the restricter orfice to lower fuel pressure. It will be a slow small steps process, but dont want to go too big and have low pressure.
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 16 Aug 2022 at 1:38pm |
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I remember in the service manual the later tractor had different size orifice than early ones. Dont recall what Serial # or which way it went but my early tractor had been updated to later size orifice.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Kracked1
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Posted: 18 Aug 2022 at 6:51am |
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Learned that we had 4 orfices. 3 of them were at .062 which was stamped in the end of the housing. The one that came on the engine in the tractor now was stamped .062 but measured at .065. That one would give us 80lbs fuel pressure. The .062 would peg the gauge at 85lbs+. I drilled the .065 out to .073. That dropped the fuel pressure to 65lbs. I then drilled it out to .076 which gave me 60-61lbs on the gauge at full throttle. I call that a success since the book says 30-60. The weather looks perfect for the show so we should be able to give it a good workout. Will try and do better on pics and videos.
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Kracked1
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Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 6:33am |
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Yesterday it came out of the shed and it did everything I asked of it. It has not pushed any dirt yet, that will be Friday at the show. But it drove and turned great. Best part is no leaks! The fuel pressure runs between 45-60lbs while operating, just what I wanted. Updates will come after the show.
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CAL(KS)
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Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 7:06am |
thats great Kirk  hopefully you wont have any surprises. I thought I was ready to go at the big dig but ended up being down for a few hours with a fuel blockage. Really scared me, I thought I toasted the converter, turns out, it works better with fuel pressure HAHA.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Kracked1
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Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 12:10pm |
They definately work better with the correct pressure.
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Kracked1
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Posted: 01 Sep 2022 at 7:18am |
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I will call it a success! It pushed this weekend at the show with no breakdowns. I had to drill out another orfice a little smaller .006. Now it has 60lbs at full push. It is VERY different to run as it just keeps slowing down until it finally spins the tracks. Next issue is a radiator swap. It runs quite warm when pushing hard, 210-220. The tractor was a fuel cooler in radiator. Engine is set up with a cooler like an oil cooler on the side of the block. We have a almost new radiator for this style cooler to install.
Edited by Kracked1 - 01 Sep 2022 at 7:20am
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Codger
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Posted: 01 Sep 2022 at 7:52am |
Seen this video with some vintage HD-20 footage last evening:
Edited by Codger - 01 Sep 2022 at 7:53am
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CAL(KS)
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Posted: 01 Sep 2022 at 8:02am |
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Kracked1
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Posted: 02 Sep 2022 at 6:53pm |
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The tractor was born as a HD21. Many years ago, not sure when, the AC engine blew up and it was switched over with all HD20 parts. It is very nicely done and you cant tell it isnt factory.
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