| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Hunt4Allis 
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: D17 rotor shaft not?
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 4:34pm |
|
When I crank my D17 over the shaft that the rotor cap sits in should rotate with the cap off correct? Mine is not moving? Thanks Matt
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
DiyDave
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 51374
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 5:30pm |
Yank it, and see what the gear below, and the gear that drives it look like... 
|
|
Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 5:37pm |
|
Ok, can I mess up timing at any point by removing things?
|
|
Gary
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Peterborough,On
Points: 5323
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 6:04pm |
|
Absolutely - Big Time !
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20193
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 6:11pm |
|
But it's already out of time anyway.
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 7:27pm |
|
So once a gear spins when it shouldn't (associated with the rotor )it's timing is already thrown off by me continuing to crank it correct?I do have a shop manual that I was able to find the parts breakdown to start to see what to look for. What is the most common failure in these that I should look for? If it's already out of time it's not going to hurt it to take distributor off correct?
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 27 Apr 2022 at 7:31pm
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80244
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 8:08pm |
right.. there should be one bolt below the distributor that holds it DOWN to the motor. Take the bolt out and wiggle, pull up on the distributor... the shaft is several inches long with a gear on the bottom... you may have a broken pin holding the gear onto the shaft ??
Before you pull the distributor, grab the shaft and try to turn it.. If something is BROKEN , it will turn.
Edited by steve(ill) - 27 Apr 2022 at 8:09pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 8:53pm |
|
Okay I tried turning it to set the point gap and it would barely rotate enough to go open and closed so not very much movement rotation wise anyways
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80244
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 9:09pm |
well thats what it is suppose to do... rotate a few degrees in one direction for the mechanical advance.. So if your rotating the motor and the distributor is NOT turning, maybe the problem is not the distributor, but the cam shaft/ gear that is driving it..... maybe someone else knows for sure...if there is a common failure point?
Edited by steve(ill) - 27 Apr 2022 at 10:02pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
MACK
Orange Level
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 9:24pm |
|
If it is a older 17 with power steering, I would say the shaft and key wore out in governor gear. If so, it will run like a different tractor after repairs. MACK
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80244
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 9:29pm |
OUCH... my mistake, thanks MACK... the distributor drives off the front end gearing and not down thru the block onto the camshaft .
Edited by steve(ill) - 27 Apr 2022 at 9:49pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
DiyDave
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 51374
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Apr 2022 at 4:45am |
 Hunt4Allis wrote:
Ok, can I mess up timing at any point by removing things? |
Getting it timed right after removal is easy, Get #1 on TDC, make sure rotor is pointing near #1 on cap, and install. Remember most distributors have a spiral cut gear, and will rotate slightly as you remove/install the dizzy, so you may have to tweak the position by a tooth or 2, on the gear. Also helps to scribe a line on the dizzy and on the side of the hole, before you pull it. Also, taking some before pictures on your phone can help...
|
|
Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Apr 2022 at 5:44am |
|
It's not power steering,then the issue probably isn't between the gear at the bottom of the distributor or the one that runs horizontally on the shaft? How could the motor turn over yet the shaft not rotate?
Seem like it made a whining noise right before it stalled while I had it idling when I was giving the cows a round bale... (It wasn't anything really all that loud but it did make a difference sound for a short time as I was giving them hay but nothing crazy)
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 28 Apr 2022 at 5:46am
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20193
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Apr 2022 at 6:42am |
|
TDC on #1 cylinder is when the retaining bolt on the crankshaft pulley is pointing straight DOWN. At that point you are 50/50. It's either on #1 compression stroke or #4 compression stroke. So, place the rotor on the distributor at #1 wire on the cap and try it. If it doesn't run (assuming everything else is correct) then again place the crank pulley bolt straight down with the rotor pointing at #4 wire, pull the distributor out and turn it to point at #1 wire and you are in "time" to run. The timing should then be accurately set using a timing light with the engine running at wide-open throttle.
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Apr 2022 at 9:22am |
|
Okay thanks for the details on how to get timing back but for now I need to find out what happened and where to start looking. Like I say trying to rotate the top of the rotor it seems pretty tight so that tells me it's probably connected at the bottom of the rotor gear onto the horizontal gear correct?
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80244
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Apr 2022 at 9:33am |
YES Hunt... the shaft is horizontal to the front of the motor and then gear driven from the crank shaft...
About all you can do at this point, is pull the distributor and look down the hole at the drive... then go forward toward the governor... and keep looking for something BROKE or key sheared... last choice is to pull the radiator and start going in from the front cover toward the gears.
Look at gears 27, and 17 above and if they are turning with the shaft.
Edited by steve(ill) - 28 Apr 2022 at 9:34am
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Apr 2022 at 10:39am |
|
How does this number 16 thrust bearing carrier work? It looks like the forks actuate it somehow on the horizontal shaft that has the large gear on it? I know I have to take it apart to see what failed I'm just asking these ahead of time so I know how to proceed at the time that I take it apart. With having kids and animals and everything else time is a limited quantity and I get chances to work on things during those quantities 😜
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 May 2022 at 11:35am |
|
I pulled the distributor out after marking several reference points and the bottom gear that's attached to the distributor shaft is a mess. It looks very dry down inside where the gears mesh together and that gear looks stripped also. Are these gears able to be bought separately and reinstalled or is it not worth it and should I just try to get all new assemblies? I'm going to crank the motor over and see if the horizontal shaft and gear rotate down inside the opening that the distributor was in and go from there... It looks like there is any oil line that runs to the front of the assembly so is that where it gets its lubrication from? I just read another post that Dr Allis was in that talked about some one else that it was dry also but I couldn't read far enough into it to see what the solution was or the culprit? I know lots of questions there just trying to get my thoughts out to see what people's thoughts are is all...Thanks Matt
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80244
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 May 2022 at 12:40pm |
Hunt, i dont know if the gear is available aftermarket or not. I see a lot of " distributor gears" listed on the NET, ( is this a generic DELCO gear ???) but not sure how you guarantee it would work on the D17..
You should also check the mating gear inside the housing for damage, and check the WOBBLE in the distributor shaft itself , for bushing wear... If all is good, i would keep looking for a gear.. If you see additional damage, you could get a good used or rebuilt unit.
just an example...
Edited by steve(ill) - 08 May 2022 at 12:44pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 May 2022 at 12:49pm |
|
Ok will do. I actually looked at that website and seen that( wow! $300!?! The horizontal "mating gear" under distributor gear looks mashed up also.
But like I say I'm going to crank it over to see if the horizontal mating gear rotates first...
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 08 May 2022 at 12:52pm
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80244
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 May 2022 at 1:00pm |
|
If you need the drive gear ( or shaft) and the distributor gear ( or shaft) ... you might be cheaper to look / ask on this site for someone that has a "good use" unit they are parting out. Get the complete drive shaft with new gear, and the distributor.... ask to verify that distributor shaft BUSHING is OK.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 May 2022 at 4:42pm |
|
The horizontal shaft coming out of the motor rotates, now I need to find out why it's so dry in there? Is it supposed to be filled separately from a fill plug or what?
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20193
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 May 2022 at 6:38pm |
|
If that area has the power steering pump (old D-17's did) that gear area is a compartment of its own and needs oil or grease to lube the gears. If it doesn't have a power steering pump it has a small oil line from the cylinder head that comes down to the governor front cover and from the cover sprays oil directly backwards thus lubricating timing gears, governor weights and eventually the distributor gears. I don't think I've ever seen gears fail without a power steering pump because they have oil sprayed in that area whenever the engine runs.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80244
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 May 2022 at 8:58pm |
I'm going to crank the motor over and see if the horizontal shaft and gear rotate down inside the opening that the distributor was in and go from there... It looks like there is any oil line that runs to the front of the assembly so is that where it gets its lubrication from? I just read another post that Dr Allis was in that talked about some one else that it was dry also but I couldn't read far enough i...........
HUNT... apparently you need to look at " the little line" closer.. REmove and blow air thru it ? AFter its running again, take line loose and see if you have flow.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20193
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 May 2022 at 9:01pm |
|
Even if the line has oil the aluminum governor cover passage may be plugged.
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 May 2022 at 4:42am |
|
It does not have power steering and does have these small oil line going from the cylinder head down to the governor front cover. Thanks all I will chase that out and see if there's a blockage somewhere! Thanks for the good info...
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2022 at 1:03pm |
|
I got a new governor that has been rebuilt. I need to check the mating gear that the distributor goes into for damage before I bolt this back together and clean the small line out and make sure it has flow. Is there anything else I should do before reassembling? Thanks Matt
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 Jul 2022 at 6:19am |
|
I'm mostly asking so I can get this up and running again to move around bales out of my hay field
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 Jul 2022 at 6:20am |
Hunt4Allis wrote:
I'm mostly asking so I can get this up and running again to move large round bales out of my hay field |
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80244
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 Jul 2022 at 8:27am |
as Dr said, the normal things are the governor weights, and the mating gears for the distributor... You have a NEW governor, and your checking the gears that MATE to the distributor.. Make sure no burrs or sharp edges on the teeth... Clean the lube line and hole and you should be good to go !! ............. Great Job on the repairs !
Didnt see a post where you FIXED the distributor shaft.. I assume you got a NEW GEAR or replaced the DIST with a rebuild ? Top bushing in the distributor is good and NO SLOP in the shaft side to side ??
Edited by steve(ill) - 07 Jul 2022 at 8:31am
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
