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PD//TA ??
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FREEDGUY View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Apr 2017
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    Posted: 09 Feb 2022 at 5:33pm
Allis had the Pd, IH had the TA. In that era of tractors, did any manufacture offer a "shift-on-the-go" tranny ??  I've been on the seat of several  5/6/7 models of Olivers but I don't recall a "power shift" tranny Smile . Thanks
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Oliver had the over under
ryan
1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62
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Could that be shifted on the go ?? I know Massey had Multi Power but I don't recall that a shift on the go either Embarrassed ?? Thanks for the reply
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Oliver: Hydra-Power-Drive 2 speed shift on the go
            Over-Under hydra shift  3 speed shift on the go
 Massey Ferguson: Multi Power drive 2 speed shift on the go
 Case: Case-o-matic drive: Shift on the go between Torque converter drive and direct drive
 Ford: Select-O-Speed 10 speed total shift on the go
 Minneapolis Moline: Ampli-Torque 2 speed shift on the go
 International Harvester: Torque Amplifier 2 speed shift on the go.
 
The advantage Allis Chalmers had over all the rest was Neutral in the middle, everyone else was either or.
 Seat warmers sometimes never knew what all the levers did as they never read operators manuals
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Joined: 15 Apr 2017
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Thanks Paul. I've been in the seat of a MF 180 and that short stubby MP stick did NOT look shift-on-the- go friendly to me Embarrassed !! None of the 550/770/880 Olivers I drove had Hydra-Power. There were no Case O Matics in our area, the next door neighbor had the Ford (801?) select-o-speed but that's a little different animal than I was asking about Clap.
The only MM machine was a combine 40 miles away from our area, no MM tractors at all. There were a lot of White tractors in the area for a while , any size from a 2-70 to a 4-225
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The AC Power Director didn't  free wheel in low like a lot of others did.
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Originally posted by FREEDGUY FREEDGUY wrote:

Thanks Paul. I've been in the seat of a MF 180 and that short stubby MP stick did NOT look shift-on-the- go friendly to me Embarrassed !! None of the 550/770/880 Olivers I drove had Hydra-Power. 

The 2 speed/3 speed oliver shift was after the 770/880 series. 1700/1800 series. 
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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JD had the Power shift in the late 60's and also the 2 speed Quad range transmission that came out on the 4030 if I remember. But these are 10-15 years newer than the IH/AC/OL designs.
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Ford had dual power 2 speed buttons on the floor like the AC PD, but ford was way before, on the 8000/9000. Of any of the ones mentioned above, I know of none with a neutral in between. The AC early PD is the only ones I can think of with a neutral in between. 

Edited by injpumpEd - 10 Feb 2022 at 7:12am
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Deere 4020 power shift was introduced in late 1963.
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Originally posted by FREEDGUY FREEDGUY wrote:

Thanks Paul. I've been in the seat of a MF 180 and that short stubby MP stick did NOT look shift-on-the- go friendly to me Embarrassed !! None of the 550/770/880 Olivers I drove had Hydra-Power. There were no Case O Matics in our area, the next door neighbor had the Ford (801?) select-o-speed but that's a little different animal than I was asking about Clap.
The only MM machine was a combine 40 miles away from our area, no MM tractors at all. There were a lot of White tractors in the area for a while , any size from a 2-70 to a 4-225
What the heck would "shift on the go friendly" look like then?  Short and stubby would seem to indicate very little effort required.  I first shifted an MF Multi Power when I was about 5 or 6 years old.  The Massey would freewheel in low Multi Power, and engine break in Hi, which seems a tad backwards to me, but that's how they were.  

What series of Allis stopped providing a neutral PD?  The 7045 we have is PD, and it's either or, defaults to low of course when the clutch is depressed.  
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Last AC PD with Neutral would be the 175/185. The reason most freewheel in the low side of the 2 speed shift on the go, is the low side uses a one way sprag clutch for the low side, then the direct, or faster side simply has to engage one clutch pack making a smooth, simple shift. Many Auto transmissions also use this for low gear. The hyd TA like in a 706 and up have the sprag but also a clutch pack on the low side to provide the engine braking, or eliminating the freewheeling. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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IIRC, the 190 had hydraulically actuated PD, is that correct?
both direct and under were positive (no free-wheeling) ?
but no neutral either? 
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Yes 180/185/190/200 is hyd, positive, no sprag, but they do have neutral in between. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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could those models be "feathered in" where the hydraulic was under control and acted like the older PDs with The Big Stick or was it just IN / OUT ?
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Originally posted by injpumpEd injpumpEd wrote:

Last AC PD with Neutral would be the 175/185. The reason most freewheel in the low side of the 2 speed shift on the go, is the low side uses a one way sprag clutch for the low side, then the direct, or faster side simply has to engage one clutch pack making a smooth, simple shift. Many Auto transmissions also use this for low gear. The hyd TA like in a 706 and up have the sprag but also a clutch pack on the low side to provide the engine braking, or eliminating the freewheeling. 
Thanks Ed, yes, I understand mechanically why it's low that freewheels.  I'm just saying from the standpoint, if you're going to control your speed downhill, one would intuitively think slower would be "better/safer/smarter" than faster.  ?  Just my worthless thought is all.  
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The Oliver 770/880 had a available optional ‘Power Booster’ drive, which was the same principle as the IH ‘Torque Amplifier’. The later Oliver ‘Hydra Power’ and even later ‘Over/Under Hydraul Shift’ were much improved over the earlier ones.

Edited by TramwayGuy - 10 Feb 2022 at 2:58pm
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Had to read through this topic a couple times, if I'm reading it correct, my early 190xt has neutral between the high and low. The selector has three lock positions, high-neutral-low.
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Originally posted by Gatz in NE Gatz in NE wrote:

could those models be "feathered in" where the hydraulic was under control and acted like the older PDs with The Big Stick or was it just IN / OUT ?


Don’t know if you’re supposed to but I feather my 185 constantly whe filling the cattle bunks with hay. Works fine.
"Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin
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The detents are pretty stiff on the 185 here but have that as well with 3pt rake
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A good squirt of WD40 in the pivot area and on the detents makes that lever work very nice.
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I’ve always been Orange since I can remember, because our family has been since 1955 with my grand dad’s new WD45. Dad continued that with his brand new Series II D15, used D14, and new 6060. I love the PD on the AC and was actually disappointed when the 6060 didn’t have one. My best friend has AC tractors but also has a mixture of Ford tractors. 3-8600’s of which I have driven many times. Dual power on the floor, shift on the go...PD with no neutral in my opinion. Although a very good tractor, our AC’s with power directors give a better option.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Originally posted by FREEDGUY FREEDGUY wrote:

Thanks Paul. I've been in the seat of a MF 180 and that short stubby MP stick did NOT look shift-on-the- go friendly to me Embarrassed !! None of the 550/770/880 Olivers I drove had Hydra-Power. There were no Case O Matics in our area, the next door neighbor had the Ford (801?) select-o-speed but that's a little different animal than I was asking about Clap.
The only MM machine was a combine 40 miles away from our area, no MM tractors at all. There were a lot of White tractors in the area for a while , any size from a 2-70 to a 4-225
What the heck would "shift on the go friendly" look like then?  Short and stubby would seem to indicate very little effort required.  I first shifted an MF Multi Power when I was about 5 or 6 years old.  The Massey would freewheel in low Multi Power, and engine break in Hi, which seems a tad backwards to me, but that's how they were. 
So the Massey's could shift the M/P lever without depressing the foot clutch ?? 

What series of Allis stopped providing a neutral PD?  The 7045 we have is PD, and it's either or, defaults to low of course when the clutch is depressed.  
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Originally posted by injpumpEd injpumpEd wrote:

Ford had dual power 2 speed buttons on the floor like the AC PD, but ford was way before, on the 8000/9000. Of any of the ones mentioned above, I know of none with a neutral in between. The AC early PD is the only ones I can think of with a neutral in between. 
We had a neighbor that ran a 5500,6600 and 7710 Ford tractors, seems like all 3  (the 7710 for sure) could be shifted from 1 gear to another while on -the-move with NO gear grinding/clashing, a far cry from the D/100 series Ouch
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Originally posted by FREEDGUY FREEDGUY wrote:

Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Originally posted by FREEDGUY FREEDGUY wrote:

Thanks Paul. I've been in the seat of a MF 180 and that short stubby MP stick did NOT look shift-on-the- go friendly to me Embarrassed !! None of the 550/770/880 Olivers I drove had Hydra-Power. There were no Case O Matics in our area, the next door neighbor had the Ford (801?) select-o-speed but that's a little different animal than I was asking about Clap.
The only MM machine was a combine 40 miles away from our area, no MM tractors at all. There were a lot of White tractors in the area for a while , any size from a 2-70 to a 4-225

What the heck would "shift on the go friendly" look like then?  Short and stubby would seem to indicate very little effort required.  I first shifted an MF Multi Power when I was about 5 or 6 years old.  The Massey would freewheel in low Multi Power, and engine break in Hi, which seems a tad backwards to me, but that's how they were. 
So the Massey's could shift the M/P lever without depressing the foot clutch ?? 

What series of Allis stopped providing a neutral PD?  The 7045 we have is PD, and it's either or, defaults to low of course when the clutch is depressed.  


Yes, of course, that was the whole point.
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Thanks, I was never given instructions from the owner when I was 10 and came from D series A/C tractors Embarrassed
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Originally posted by FREEDGUY FREEDGUY wrote:

Thanks, I was never given instructions from the owner when I was 10 and came from D series A/C tractors Embarrassed

Steering wheel holder (seat warmer)  that never read an operators manual.
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Freedguy. The MF multi power shifted with switch on dash.Just move switch up or down. Of course you can shift lever if you want but the whole point of it was to avoid that. So on the 165, 175, 180 you had 4 speed trans and hi low range for 8 speeds.  Multi power trans was a 3 speed trans so with the switch was 12 ahead and 4 reverse. Had to check on that. The older 35's and 65's had only 3 speed trans.

Edited by Ed (Ont) - 14 Feb 2022 at 7:52am
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When I was a kid we had a MF 180 with multi-power. Used it often and it was trouble free, never put a dime into it.  All of the AC's we had, we had good luck with the PD with the exception of the popping back into N. Usually an adjustment fixed that. 

Old timer told me it costs 1.00 everytime you shift an IH T/A. Probably up to 5.00 now LOL

One neat thing about the over/under in an Oliver is it is a separate unit all together with its own housing. I think there 2 speed hydra-power is like that as well. 
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