auburn clutch frozen engaged

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   Yours truly the fool is still trying to complete my rebuild.  
I got the pressure plate (aka clutch disc) relined.  I installed it against the flywheel with the cupped side which seems to cover the flywheel bolts facing the flywheel.  I got the clutch shaft in to line up the clutch disc and then reassembled the rest of the clutch.  It seemed straight forward.  
After a mighty battle I got the 271 (HD5) finally installed back into the tractor.  To my horror I find the clutch is fully engaged with the shifting arm all the way forward.  I can pull it back about an inch and I see the spring loaded pusher forward component trying to push forward but it as no where to go.
I thought turning the adjuster ring counter clockwise would free it up and make things okay, but it doesn't.  With the locking bolt loose I thought I was able to move the adjusting ring, but it has done no good.
Out of frustration I've tried turning the engine over with the starter to hope that may move the adjusting ring faster and easier.   Nothing has helped.  I'm ready to go mad.
What could I have done wrong?
Thanks!

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WaltDevore Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jan 2020 Location: IdahoSprings CO Points: 143	Post Options Post Reply Quote WaltDevore Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: auburn clutch frozen engaged Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 1:44pm
	Yours truly the fool is still trying to complete my rebuild. I got the pressure plate (aka clutch disc) relined. I installed it against the flywheel with the cupped side which seems to cover the flywheel bolts facing the flywheel. I got the clutch shaft in to line up the clutch disc and then reassembled the rest of the clutch. It seemed straight forward. After a mighty battle I got the 271 (HD5) finally installed back into the tractor. To my horror I find the clutch is fully engaged with the shifting arm all the way forward. I can pull it back about an inch and I see the spring loaded pusher forward component trying to push forward but it as no where to go. I thought turning the adjuster ring counter clockwise would free it up and make things okay, but it doesn't. With the locking bolt loose I thought I was able to move the adjusting ring, but it has done no good. Out of frustration I've tried turning the engine over with the starter to hope that may move the adjusting ring faster and easier. Nothing has helped. I'm ready to go mad. What could I have done wrong? Thanks!

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WaltDevore Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jan 2020 Location: IdahoSprings CO Points: 143	Post Options Post Reply Quote WaltDevore Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 2:02pm
	I recall that when I inserted the spline shaft that it did not go in all the way but was able to tighten the bolts of that assembly which drew it in the rest the way. It must be shaft has not penetrated through the clutch disc. I don't know. I'll try loosening the bolts and see what happens.

Tad Wicks Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 27 Mar 2011 Location: Shandon, CA Points: 2165	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tad Wicks Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 2:29pm
	I don't know that clutch, at least by that name but I wanted to give you a heads up, when having something relined with rivets. Most reliners these days are using cheap chinese rivets, they look fine but they are NOT TUBULAR BRASS, they are steel plated with brass, easily checked with a magnet and the steel rivets will destroy drums and pressure plates, I would suggest that you check while you still can, it might save you some grief down the road a ways. I think that it is a rotten trick so just a word to the wise.

gemdozer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Points: 989	Post Options Post Reply Quote gemdozer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 2:58pm
	Is it possible the shifting sleeve is instaled on wrong side

WaltDevore Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jan 2020 Location: IdahoSprings CO Points: 143	Post Options Post Reply Quote WaltDevore Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 4:02pm
	I suspect the front of the shaft did not mate into the flywheel pilot hole. A video of the situraiton: https://www.facebook.com/Allis-Chalmers-HD5G-109124077151035/?ref=pages_you_manage I know this is always a curse. Any magic trick for getting the shaft in? I'm probably mistaken. At my wits end.

DiyDave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 51730	Post Options Post Reply Quote DiyDave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 6:54pm
	Did you use a clutch alignment tool, when installing it to the flywheel?
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WaltDevore Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jan 2020 Location: IdahoSprings CO Points: 143	Post Options Post Reply Quote WaltDevore Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 7:54pm
	I used the actual shaft of the clutch brake assembly thinking I pushed it in all the way and then tightened the pressure plate bolts. That may be a problem as it was heavy and I'm dealing with sciatica pain. The shaft got through the clutch disc but maybe not into the flywheel. Everything seems in line when I turn the motor over with the starter. So the answer to your question is "no", but sorta on improvisation.

WaltDevore Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jan 2020 Location: IdahoSprings CO Points: 143	Post Options Post Reply Quote WaltDevore Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 9:05pm
	I reallize that the problem is with the clutch shifting rod forward, the pressure plate should be retracted with no contact with the clutch disc. Something is keeping the pressure plate from relaxing away from the clutch disc. Could I have installed the yoke thing backwards and it's pushed forward instead of back?

JC-WI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33828	Post Options Post Reply Quote JC-WI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 1:04am
	Walt, how about loosening all 6 screws on the pressure plate and then try backing off the adjusting ring. Did you by chance put the clutch plate splines forward? They are suppose to be facing rear-ward. if you have the clutch locked in the engaged position, and the clutch disk is off-center, no amount of maneuvering or kicking will change your clutch disk position to line up the end of shaft to pilot bearing until you get the disk loose in the clutch... if that is what is happening. Edited by JC(WI) - 15 Sep 2021 at 10:48am
	He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

jwoods Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 12 Jan 2014 Location: Oakwood, OH Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote jwoods Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 3:02am
	- no experience with the AC Equipment in that area, but many years ago had the same thing on a farmall tractor. I had put the clutch disc in backwards, one side of the center splines were longer (protruded from the center line) than the other. i.e., it only went on correctly in 1 direction.

Les Kerf Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 790	Post Options Post Reply Quote Les Kerf Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 11:42am
	Subscribing to this thread because I will probably be doing an HD5G clutch someday and I want to learn as much as I can beforehand. After carefully studying the exploded view pictures in the shop manual, and assuming that all of the other little bits and pieces are installed correctly, it seems to me that the most likely malfunction is either gross mis-alignment of the 'driven plate assembly' (AKA clutch disc) or the clutch disc is installed backwards. If the problem is mis-alignment, I wonder if the end of the clutch shaft would be contacting the pilot bearing off-center and then be able to shove the pilot bearing in too deep. Just guessing though, please let us know what you discover.

WaltDevore Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jan 2020 Location: IdahoSprings CO Points: 143	Post Options Post Reply Quote WaltDevore Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 6:52pm
	I also think that the shaft did not hit the flywheel pilot bearing hole. It seemed to rotate true but it doesn't take much I guess. I'm assuming the lack of alignment was causing the clutch disc to bind on the shaft. I'm attempting to separate the clutch housing, loosen the pressure plate bolts to the flywheel, and find an alignment tool. I measured the shaft, the pilot diameter is 1.18", the inside spline 1.39", and the outside spline 1.69 which doesn't matter. When I assembled the clutch with the engine out, I used the shaft to align the clutch disc but I must have failed to jimmy it a little more to mate into the pilot bearing. What a devastating stupidity. When I bolted the clutch shaft rear plate, the plate was sticking out about an 1/8" but the screws drew it in, I guess creating the bind. I'm trying to not remove the clutch housing from the tractor as it's impossible with the hydraulic hoses in the way. My rear main seal is already dripping oil. Getting that seal in was next to impossible too. I guess she'll always have fresh oil and I'll park it down hill. Worst decision I ever made to try to fix the old thing. I'm too dumb to know when I'm in way over my head. Now I'm stuck with "not out, but through". I hope this doesn't kill me. I also think I got a backwards fuel pump as it's not pumping a lick. It was so confusing ordering it, establishing what reference one was looking at the pump. It couldn't be as simple as looking at it straight on mounted on the engine. I don't know if there's a trick to priming it the first time. Fuel was leaking out the fitting from the first stage filter to the pump. I must have been a miserable bastard in a past life to be dealing with all this now.

WaltDevore Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jan 2020 Location: IdahoSprings CO Points: 143	Post Options Post Reply Quote WaltDevore Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 6:55pm
	The manual says to install with the oil slinger facing the flywheel. I don't know what an oil slinger is, but it seems it's a dish like piece the covers the flywheel bolts. If I'm right, at least the disc is installed correctly.

Ian Beale Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 03 Oct 2011 Location: New South Wales Points: 973	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ian Beale Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 5:34am
	Walt Does this help? https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cVM_bh3FzBg/YT6tS9yfPrI/AAAAAAAAtt8/gONPLOj1_hAAWYcqXgJLa-ZfKoGJZkVyACPcBGAsYHg/w353-h400/Meme%2B-%2B3rd%2Breincarnation.png

JC-WI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33828	Post Options Post Reply Quote JC-WI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 10:02am
	Ian, that baby looks like he's been around 4 or 5 times... Walt is just having a hard time convincing himself that he needs to take it apart once more for a simple mistake or two..., that might be a little costly since some materials don't like pressures applied to them in the wrong directions not intended. On top of that, he's got sciatica that is slowin him down too After looking at video again, he is kicking the rear cover, but maybe he needs to wiggle the shaft itself up and down and side ways to see if the shaft will finally slip in the pilot bearing... and turn the engine a little each time until maybe something lines up with gravety's help. Walt probably already has done that. So maybe if he works through the inspection hole, he can get enough pressure released off the clutch plate to get the clutch disengaged and then proceed to see if the pilot shaft will enter the pilot bearing. But if the clutch plate is reversed... going to have to take it apart to correct that situation. Hydraulic lines in the way or not. Good luck, Walt. Report back what you find... ...and it is not out of your reach to achieve your goal to make it work again correctly.
	He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

Les Kerf Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 790	Post Options Post Reply Quote Les Kerf Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 12:50pm
	This is one of those times when I truly wish I was close by so as to be able to come over and help out. I really don't believe there is any better alignment tool than the actual clutch shaft, although I have had better success just lining clutches up by eyeball; it works just like lining up a rifle front sight with a rear peep sight. The trouble with using an alignment tool is that gravity always causes the disc to settle downward slightly so that it really isn't quite in the center. No matter here though, I'm afraid that Walt really will need to disassemble parts until the problem can be found and corrected.

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41609	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 1:07pm
	Sure hope you plugged the hole in the crank where felt wick is or was . Replace pilot bearing with a sealed bearing instead of open type . Dampening springs in clutch disc face back of tractor I replaced fiber clutch with a ceramic button clutch - works great - but no slipping clutch . As it's a over center type clutch it differs from diaphragm or fingered pressure plate in setting up as clearances are set by the adjusting ring .
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

Les Kerf Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 790	Post Options Post Reply Quote Les Kerf Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 7:33am
	Walt, did you ever get this resolved?

WaltDevore Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 03 Jan 2020 Location: IdahoSprings CO Points: 143	Post Options Post Reply Quote WaltDevore Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 5:07pm
	Yes. I'm not really sure what I did. I think the yoke was oriented back towards the rear of the clutch housing. How I was able to get it together like that I don't know. I unbolted the clutch housing from the flywheel housing and fought with it. Getting those yoke slider things that mate with the shafts was tough. I eventually got it back together and it worked. Thanks for asking.