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XT/200 ?? |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 8:40pm |
All things being equal- hours, paint, tire condition, which would you guys prefer ?
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DougG
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8091 |
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190 XT, as the 200,s seemed differt and at mid point was a cost reduced in certain areas, the XT,S were always solid
Edited by DougG - 16 Jul 2021 at 8:59pm |
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4855 |
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If it’s a series IIIXT then it will have the same reared as the 200. A few changes on the 200, short throw PD, grill, fuel system. Either one is a winner in my book. I personally like the long throw PD on my XT verses the 200.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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DSeries4
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7304 |
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All things being equal, they are both the same tractor! Very minor changes between a series 3 and 200.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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tbran
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3285 |
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200, heavier finals, housing and ring gear pinion.... pistons were different to prevent gaulding - (most have been changed by now) 20 % more cooling capacity and increased engine oil capacity. 200 hyd pump (same as late series III ) was much better. The late 200 had a smoother shift in the pd via better shift valve. 200's had option of and most had 38" rear tires and larger front tire option.
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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LionelinKY
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Radcliff,KY Points: 695 |
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After growing up with this girl over the last 50 years, I'll have to admit being just a little bit biased-LOL.
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"My name is Lionel and I'm an Allisoholic"
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btred1466
Silver Level Joined: 12 Jul 2012 Location: Magnolia, OHIO Points: 205 |
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What are the differences in the 190XT and 200 Brake Systems?
What is involved in changing one of these from a Mechanical PTO to a Hydraulic PTO? If it possible, which I think it is, curious about this. Also a Single 540 PTO to a Dual 540/1000PTO? I don't own either or any Allis Chalmers but I like both those Tractors 190XT and 200's.
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tbran
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3285 |
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late brakes were expanding center with discs - like the 7000 . Early were like the 190 band expanding drum. See agcopartsbooks.com and compare. It would require a donor tractor and a major job to convert to hyd pto and questionable upgrade unless starting and stopping the pto a bunch. Single to dual pto requires rear lift hsg swap and guts. Rare options as it added a substantial amount to invoice.
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4862 |
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A 200 is the most refined version of the 190XT. Many improvements. The 7000 is the final revision of that basic powertrain, but is significantly different, it's basically in a class by itself. A late XT would perform like a 200 in the field.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Joe(TX)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Weatherford. TX Points: 1682 |
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One of the biggest improvement on the 200 was the crank driven oil pump and piston cooling.
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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Fred in Pa
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Hanover Pa. Points: 9190 |
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Anyone ever think about putting a 7000 drive train in a 200 ???
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
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Ky.Allis
Orange Level Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Location: Kentucky Points: 997 |
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I'm not positive but didn't the 200 have nicer seat with fold up arm rests and above hood muffler and I know they had the option of tilt/telescope steering wheel cause mine has it. Late 200's with the gated PD control is super easy to shift/feather with the short throw and hand guide. The 200 was the last AC tractor made with manual shifted PD that you could "feather" during operation. Some talk about later 200"s being "price cutter" version. Well that's what mine is and only difference I ever saw was 2 headlights instead of 4 and the hollow front support. On the positive side that hollow front support allows you to change the front crank seal without removing the entire front end. So the "price cutter" myth does not amount nothing!!!! With the 540/1000 hyd. PTO option;they were a pretty darn good tractor in their day.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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From what I've read, the 7000 is a "bastard child" ???
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20191 |
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I've often thought about taking a maroon 7000 and grafting 200 Sheetmetal onto it. The length of the torque tube is exactly the same. The length of the rear end is too. I'd use 200 side frames, front axle and radiator/hood/dashboard/cowl/clutch/brake pedals /platform/console control. It could be done and would be a sleeper to an untrained eye. True "independent" PTO and three-speed Power Shift with a real road gear !! whooo hoooo !!
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Thanks for the info, but that's WAY too much work $$ for the average first time/ STO operator IMO
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20191 |
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Simply a response the Fred's question. It would be a big project, almost requiring two whole tractors. The brake pedal linkage would be a challenge. The clutch pedal linkage would be as well. Other than that, I don't see anything else that would pose a serious engineering problem. It would be really cool and expensive to do. The 7000 torque tube requires use of a 7000 rear end and that would essentially be the entire driveline.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Thanks for the reply Doc. Is it true that an "early" 7000 was not very desirable ?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20191 |
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I don't know where you get that idea. I never desired them because a 7040 was waaay more tractor with bigger hydraulics, wet brakes, wet-clutch, more speed selections, differential lock, and on and on. The 7000 was a nice replacement for a 190XT or 200, as it was better in every way. There was just a big hole from 106 HP to 136 HP and an even bigger hole in the features on the bigger tractor. They should have had the 7010 with an intercooler at 115 HP, the 7040 where it was at 136 HP and the 7000 at 100 HP, thus drawing a line in chassis config at over 100 HP got your the Deeluxe models.
Edited by DrAllis - 17 Jul 2021 at 7:34pm |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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I'm sorry, it wasn't meant on you Doc, I've read on other forums about the 7000 model specifically .
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Fred in Pa
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Hanover Pa. Points: 9190 |
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So what is the list of problems that makes a 7000 a "bastard child"
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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From what I recall, same dry clutch as the xt/200, equal to or less hp than the above units, no parts interchanging with other 7000 series ?? I have no proof of this, just what I recall reading on other forums .
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29781 |
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When I was a kid I used to hear my uncles and my dad say "stay away from the maroon chassis 7000 series". Of course that was in the late 70's and none of my family owned any 7000 series at the time to base that statement on. My thoughts are that it was based on hearing about the Power Shift maroon chassis having some early failures. I believe that was cured with a shift valve change that I assume took place with the black chassis introduction in 1977-78. The plain 7000 tractors around here, whether maroon or black chassis, have a great reputation and served long hours on dairies and small farms in my area for years. I would swap my pretty nice 200 for a good 7000 any day of the week. The 200 is a better looking tractor though in my book.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20191 |
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The maroon 7000 used the same exact foot clutch as a 200, which was just fine. It wasn't just fine when it came to running a big round baler. Any dry clutch's life can never match the wet power director clutch life of a 190/200 tractor when stopping & starting 100 times a day. The dry foot clutch never got adjusted to help increase its service life because most Owners were ignorant of keeping "free-play" in the clutch pedal, adding to possible shorter life. I've never had one single 7000 power shift clutch failure in a maroon tractor, so that would encompass several dozens of those units in my service area over the years. As much as I dis-liked the tractor, they really had less issues than many of the larger models. It's always funny to me how "some guy said" becomes truth when it really isn't. I know lots of real truths about Deere tractors, but most brain-washed owners will never admit to them.
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DougG
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8091 |
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I hear ya Doc - on how words from ppl who have no experience with the subject carry on as to be truth- My opinion on a 7000 was the 3 speed powershift is one of a kind and -rare- i guess, but id luv to own one !
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Harvey/pa
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: York Co. Pa. Points: 1015 |
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We had a Farm Sale at a Dairy last week where there were mostly older IHC tractors and one John Deere 100+ hp cab & loader, all were well used. The Deere guys were saying all the tractors sold very high but of course the JD was really a bargain, really cheap, they were all shaking their heads but I didn't see any of them bidding...Harvey
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soggybottomboy
Silver Level Access Joined: 20 Feb 2018 Location: Iowa Points: 201 |
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On the 200, they used a seven blade fan which ran slower than the 5 blade fan on the one ninety, but still moved just as much or more air through the cooling system. There was supposed to be less fan noise which made the tractor more pleasant to drive. This fan was driven by 2 belts instead of one, and that was definitely a good thing because the belt on the one ninety had to be kept very tight or it would slip.
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HD6GTOM
Orange Level Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Location: MADISON CO IA Points: 6627 |
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After operating dads older XT and my late 200, I'd never want to go back to the XT. I've got a factory cab with air that needs a little work but the heat works very well.
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tbran
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3285 |
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The #1 gorilla in the equation is one never had gear jump out with a 7000 - they put a angle on the shifter teeth and collar that causes the shifter collar to pull in the harder it pulled which was an issue if one pulled into an object and wanted to shift out of gear quickly... 7000 had a tranny brake which was almost never adjusted correctly - resulting in reverse grind out....
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4855 |
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Again, 200 is just a refined 190XT. I still love my XT, I have no significant reason to trade for a 200. My neighbor has a gated 200 PD and honestly I like my long throw handle PD better. Its like comparing a 67 Camaro to a 69 Camaro...the 69 has hidden headlamps and a little smoother body line. Both really good cars, the 69 is a little more refined. Same with this scenario, both good tractors..200 is just a little more refined. The 4 pinion rear end od a 200 vs a early 2 pinion rear of a early XT is a significant upgrade. So that’s a big issue.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4862 |
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Just as Dr mentioned, I've always thought it would be a cool project to build a 190/200 looking tractor using the 7000 powertrain for a 3 speed power director/power-shift.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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