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Codger 
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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 Topic: Oil Service/Change time:
Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 7:17am |
Dragging my 11B dozer home this next week and it's not had any service for a lengthy time. It is an Allis-Chalmers 11000 engine, powershift transmission type tractor. No mechanical history on the tractor before early 1996 when purchased with a new undercarriage installed and about 450 hours since. I do know the original owner/company and they maintain things well. Nothing I've really found wrong with the tractor at this writing and it operates fine.
I've never had anything Allis in the past so wondering if these favor any special oils. I have a barrel each of Delo, and Delvac 15W-40, along with a barrel of Delo 100, (30W) I usually run in the two stroke Detroit engines. I assume the 15W-40 would work fine but thought I'd ask. I will probably run ATF, (Dexron) in the transmission unless something is better for that application. All filters and fluids are to be changed out also.
Guess I should mention there is also a barrel of low silicate coolant awaiting this tractor also for the cooling system. There is going to be a coolant conditioning filter incorporated, and an centrifugal oil filter installed when the system is drained down if not already one(s) installed.
Looking for any tips you folks might have also as I have no dozer experience at all other than undercarriage work many years ago.
Thanks,
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 31151
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Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 7:43am |
As my own experience with Allis Construction, would stick with a straight weight 30w engine oil Delo 100 or Rotella 30. As to the Power shift, I used a 10w hytrans fluid with good results as the OE Allis weight and type are long obsoleted, ATF was only for extreme cold environments in these as too thin.
I used a company that specialized in Baldwin Filters and had all the filters for my machine still, Applications Associates, found them while trying to locate the steering supply filters for my 7G where they were the only to still list them as well produce them.
If the previous owner had manuals get them or go to looking for service literature thru the typical suppliers, will be well pleased you had.
Edited by DMiller - 22 Aug 2021 at 7:45am
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Codger
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
Points: 2041
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Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 8:02am |
Thank you. The prior owner is looking for the original set of manuals that came with the machine when purchased all those years ago. I have an electronic set I'd found on the net for some of the particulars and it listed ATF as an alternative for the transmission, but I was going to run the original oil specs by a local oil distributor also.
This tractor is so "aged" now with limited parts sources available, I really don't want to hurt it by not knowing.
Thanks again,
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3786
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Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 7:28am |
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straight gear drive 11b could use 80-90 in trans and bevel gear
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Ray54
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
Points: 4552
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Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 11:26am |
 CAL(KS) wrote:
straight gear drive 11b could use 80-90 in trans and bevel gear |
CAL please look again he said power shift .
My uncle ran a HD 21 from 72 until 2005? or so. I know 80-90 is to thick for PS. Over the years he was in the transmission several times. Used it at a landfill for 20 years so it ran 365 days a year. A lot of short days but no days off in the garbage business.
With the changes in oil I am not sure what is better. But after he got a Fiat Allis FD 30 and was in contact with a factory trained shop again he switched oils to something newer than the manual listed 30 years before. I am relatively sure it was a Mobil oil product, maybe the same as used in farm tractor transmission/hydraulic systems.
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3786
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Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 3:33pm |
Ray54 wrote:
CAL(KS) wrote:
straight gear drive 11b could use 80-90 in trans and bevel gear |
CAL please look again he said power shift .
My uncle ran a HD 21 from 72 until 2005? or so. I know 80-90 is to thick for PS. Over the years he was in the transmission several times. Used it at a landfill for 20 years so it ran 365 days a year. A lot of short days but no days off in the garbage business.
With the changes in oil I am not sure what is better. But after he got a Fiat Allis FD 30 and was in contact with a factory trained shop again he switched oils to something newer than the manual listed 30 years before. I am relatively sure it was a Mobil oil product, maybe the same as used in farm tractor transmission/hydraulic systems. |
Somehow i missed where he stated power shift but I would only run 80-90 in direct drive models
Edited by CAL(KS) - 23 Aug 2021 at 3:34pm
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Codger
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 10:43pm |
Thanks guys for the advice and tips. I did put this subject to a Mobil/Chevron oil distributor we have in town and they have come up with a list of products equaling or bettering the original specifications for lubricating oils for the tractor. What I don't have on hand I will next week.
The original classification for an SAE 10W crankcase oil meeting specification "C-1" has evolved through the years into classification TO-4 for the powershift transmission(s). I'm told oils meeting this classification are fully backward compatible for older units.
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Codger
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 10:17am |
What hydraulic fluid would be suggested? The tractor will be kept inside a heated shop when not in use but I really don't expect any sub zero operation at all. Maybe operated into the late fall months but no need to push snow, (as instance).
I have a barrel of SAE 10W, (AW-32) hydraulic oil but am wondering if this is heavy enough or if I should go with a thicker oil?
What would be thoughts of GL-4 as opposed to GL-5 oils for the bevel gear compartment and such? I still use GL-4 90WT. gear lube in my old Mack transmissions which have brass internals. I've been told that GL-5 formerly was detrimental to brass but no longer is?
Thanks,
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Lazyts
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
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Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 12:11pm |
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10W oil is recommended for hydraulics. I've always used 10W To-4 oil in hydraulics, bevel gear/steering clutch and transmission on 11-B powershift. 30W TO-2 (earlier classification) was officially recommended for the transmissions via Fiat-Allis bulletin in late 70's. I ran 10W in my machine because in our climate 30W was too thick for cold weather, and the transmission was sluggish. In your case I would go 30W. I'd go 10W in steering clutch and bevel gear because of the steering pump and valves- they will perform better with lighter oil- it needs to escape from the steering valve freely in order for the steering clutches to re-engage. I've always used 80-90 in the final drives, they don't have any brass in them. 50W TO-4 would also be fine.
Edited by Lazyts - 24 Aug 2021 at 12:14pm
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AC Mel
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Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: N.Ca.
Points: 1101
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Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 2:06pm |
Ok......lets see if this is helpful... This is right out of the HD11B powershift operation and maintenance manual....could probably post more if it's helpful.
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Codger
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 2:27pm |
Thank you Lazyts; I appreciate your practical experience with this
tractor series. I had thought the transmission and bevel gear case
shared the same oil supply, but after locating a poor quality copy of a machine brochure listing fluid capacities, they are separate.
From
a photocopied brochure for the tractor series, the torque converter and
transmission hold 14 US gallons, the steering and bevel gear
compartment hold 17 US gallons, and the finals each hold 3.25 US
gallons. The hydraulic system holds 32 US gallons. The engine is 7.25 US
gallons, (lubricating oil), the coolant system is 12 US gallons
capacity. I assume all listed capacities are with filters installed.
I did find out something interesting earlier today and although they don't remember my exact machine, they tell me this oil has been routinely installed into their tractors for over 30 years: https://buysinopec.com/ ; This oil line is sold by my local supplier whom also vendors to them.
It does appear I'm on the right track with you guys helping me along.
Thanks kindly,
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Codger
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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Posted: 27 Aug 2021 at 5:33pm |
following Lazyts's advice I now have a 55 of 10W TO-4, and a 16 of 30W TO-4 for the transmission. Also got another 16 of 80-90WT for the finals so should be good on fluids. Don't have all the filters yet as had to use a couple of different suppliers but all needed were located.
Hope to get the tractor home shortly.
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