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Sealing gaskets

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AC720Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sealing gaskets
    Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 9:42pm
Interestingly, I have had 2 engine builders with years of building engines tell me they only place a thin layer of grease gun grease on each side of their gaskets before assembly. No permatex unless an uneven surface is encountered such as a 50 year old timing cover for example. May be due to a over torqued bolt or using the wrong tools to remove an old gasket. Their reasoning was as you torque the bolts down it compresses the gasket to the point that it compresses the grease out evenly, sealing the gasket and also keeps the gasket moist. Also allows for easy removal in a future repair. I typically use Permatex sparingly, just a light coat with my finger spreading it over the gasket. Works well, but I must admit it is difficult to remove the gasket if it needs to come off for a repair in the future. But I don't like leaks and that’s why I do use use it. Don’t like doing things twice. They both said if both surfaces are flat there should be no need for it. What does the factory do today and when a WD was built?
Thoughts?

Edited by AC720Man - 11 Aug 2021 at 9:44pm
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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jaybmiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 5:53am
I've seen robots on TV lay a bead of 'gasket stuff' on heads/blocks. zero chance of leaks after it squishes out and snugged.
B&S use a paper thin, paper gasket on the blocks,NO 'goop', zero leaks..until the 10 bolts loosen up a tad(maybe due to 3600RPM vibrations ???).
If the 2 surfaces are properly machined NO gaskets 'should' be required......
as for a WD, maybe back then they did  a 3 stage 'decking' ? ( 3 grits of milling wheels ). I'm betting someone here will KNOW, maybe even have a youtube video of how it was done...
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luke114 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 11:18am
For removable gaskets like valve covers (and even oil pans) I have good luck using permatex (the blue RTV stuff) to glue the cork gasket to the valve cover, and then spread a thin layer on the opposite of the gasket, and then LET THE WHOLE MESS DRY before assembly.  Turns an old cork gasket into something like the new fangled silicon gaskets.

Even when glued both sides, letting the Permatex tack up a bit is ideal.  I think the instructions say this, not that I like instructions.  I prefer to skip straight to the part where its smeared all over every tool, clean surface and exposed skin.

If we are talking about Permatex aviation form-a-gasket on thin gaskets, I used scads of that stuff for the non removable parts.
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PaulB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 7:00pm
BLUE GOO is probably the worst thing that anyone could use on engine gaskets. I can't guess how many engines I've torn apart in my lifetime to find the oil pick-up clogged with that crap. Those RTV products are petroleum soluble and over time will break down and migrate. However; to each his own, it's your engine. If all is right, the gasket alone should work as intended and last as long as the original. Side note: most gaskets are not intended to be reused. 
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 9:05pm
PaulB, I agree about that crap on oil screen. People that use that crap think if a little is good, a lot is better.
I use it at times, but choose where it is used. Gasket elementer is a much better product, but expensive and can be messy.            MACK
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AC720Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 9:53pm
I never use blue Permatex, I do on occasion use the black gasket sealant sparingly in areas that I feel may need it. The mistake made by too many is applying too much. Only a thin coat is required, the instructions explain that. As said, apply too much and it ends up inside the engine where it doesn’t belong.
The whole reason I started this thread is the engine builder that recently rebuilt my Perkins diesel for my AC160 uses the grease method on all gaskets and he has good success with it for 40 years. He sparingly uses any gasket sealant unless he encounters a cover that may have been over torqued by someone and he is unable to get it back to original form. I found his grease application interesting and it makes sense to me. Just curious if anyone else followed that same practice.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 9:55pm
I have had good luck with the brush on Permatex aviation gasket sealer on the gaskets.  Where gaskets were are not available (and I didn't feel like making them), I use another Permatex product called "the right stuff".  Comes in a tube like silicone.  It is pretty pricey, but it goes on really thick and holds very well.  The blue RTV stuff is garbage compared to the right stuff.
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kevingweq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2021 at 7:17pm
Dad and myself did lots of field repairs on dozers and construction equipment , We always had aviation form-a-gasket and a couple different diameters of string in the toolbox ,Along with a few rolls of gasket material and cork sheets.
The string was usually reserved for very difficult to replicate gaskets , We would put a light coat of permatex and stick  the string on it ,   Nowadays I use gasket eliminator , I am always worried it will leak but the darn stuff works very nicely.
Agreed on the "Right Stuff" works very well also

We did grease cummins and Cat steel headgaskets


Edited by Kevingweq - 13 Aug 2021 at 7:19pm
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Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2021 at 8:06pm
Blue silicone is intended for coolant applications, not engine oil. I remember when I was going to Hawkeye Tech one of the guys in my class was putting a water pump on a mid 70s Dodge 318. He was having trouble getting it to not leak. The last attempt he put a bead of blue silicone on it and it didn’t leak. A week later he had head gasket problems. He pulled a few large threads of blue sealer out of steam holes in the block. I don’t know if that had anything to do with losing the head gaskets, but it surely didn’t help.
There are far better choices for sealer than the blue and black silicone. My choice is Motorcraft TA-31 that International used on the 6.9-7.3 oil pans. When both surfaces are clean, it bonds so strongly that it can be very difficult to break the seal. GM has a similar product that worked as well for intake end seals.
Whatever you choose to use, more is definitely not better.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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