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Where Did They Get IT ?? |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 2021 at 6:05pm |
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I've been watching a months worth of the Science Channel that has a segment called "Mysteries Of The Abandoned". 80% of the abandoned pertain to WW2 and the NAZIS bases all over their "domain" back then. I just can NOT fathom the amount of concrete that was sourced for Hitler's follies . Some of these structures probably have the same amount of concrete as the Hoover Dam .
Just where did the Germans source SO much cement to make these goliaths back then ??
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JTOOL
Silver Level Access Joined: 28 Feb 2021 Location: 64720 Points: 346 |
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@FREEDGUY; Well, the Nazis were in power for about 12 years; AND during that time they conquered most of Europe and a lot of the USSR and part of Africa so.......?
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Lars(wi)
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7078 |
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Coming out of The Great Depression back then, country’s and international corporations we more than happy to do business with Nazi Germany
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 80199 |
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World War II ‘Atlantic Wall’ construction
In the spring of 1942, at the height of World War II, Nazi Germany decided to bolster its defences on the Western Front by constructing the “Atlantic Wall” – a sprawling fortification of 15,000 bunkers along the coast from the Netherlands to the Pyrénées. A number of French companies were drafted to help build the rampart, with “80 percent of French cement at the time used in the construction of the French section of the Atlantic Wall", according to Géo magazine. This led to a major hike in the public works market, from 16 million French francs in 1941 to 671 million in 1943. “The project was a chance, an economic opportunity for French businesses to continue working despite the occupation. In this context, Lafarge was just one of many,” Jérôme Prieur, author of “The Atlantic Wall – A Monument to Collaboration”, told FRANCE 24. “Two of its factories produced cement for the Nazis: one in occupied territory, near Angoulême [in the west of France]. The other was in unoccupied territory, near Ardèche [a region in the southwest]. Paradoxically, it was the factory in the free zone [before it was invaded by Nazi forces in November 1942] that showed the most zeal for the German war effort”. Although Lafarge was not the only French business guilty of economic collaboration, it emerged from the war with a competitive advantage. “The war wasn’t a down period for the company,” Prieur said. “Lafarge, which was already a major cement producer, maintained its status thanks to its economic collaboration with the Germans. It and other companies that collaborated on the economic level were also best placed to undertake reconstruction efforts after the war, because of their continued activity during the occupation.” Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Jun 2021 at 10:41pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Mikez
Orange Level Access Joined: 16 Jan 2013 Location: Usa Points: 8304 |
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haha we say the same thing. And not just a little concrete, like 10 feet thick. Amazing
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4669 |
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Another question: Why could those in the past build something that could last for centuries ( Rome's Coliseum & their aqueducts, the Pyramids, the Great wall of China, ect) yet many buildings, bridges and sports areas built in my lifetime are crumbling or have already been torn down.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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Lars(wi)
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7078 |
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Good observation Paul, look at the construction methods used centuries ago, the thickness of walls, the arches, etc. It’s no wonder some buildings of that age are still standing.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22256 |
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Why ? Cause they didn't pour millions and millions of tons SALT onto their roads or use RAW steel rebar in concrete.......DOH !!! They also MEASURED 'stuff'.... SSONS house next door... concrete walls are 3 INCHES out of square in 25 feet(even I could SEE that). OK, just a 1% 'error', HUGE discussion going on as I type, as to the 'fix'... Con wants to cut to grade( 2.5' down yet frost is 4' here...),then repour....but it'll be canitlevered 3 INCHES
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Ray54
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4474 |
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Today we have engineers that get a calculator out and figure how much it take hold the load. So it stands up at least until the inspector is gone.
But that old stuff IF IN DOUBT BUILD IT STOUT.
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DanWi
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: wttn Points: 1743 |
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Built to last if you did it once you didn't want to do it over again a second time.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Damn guys, some of these installations were "IN THE WATER" housing U boats for repairs/re-arming that had 10' poured ceilings on TOP of the 3 bay walls that are 4' wide . On top of the "where", HOW did they complete such MASSIVE projects without "someone" mentioning the "goings-on" ??
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9411 |
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A couple years ago on our trip to Pearl Harbor III had the same questions? How they got all the material to build all that heavy duty stuff back in the 40’s. And out in the middle of the ocean. I saw so many things that left me in awe |
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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EXACTLY !!
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JTOOL
Silver Level Access Joined: 28 Feb 2021 Location: 64720 Points: 346 |
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@Thad in AR.; I would wager that Pearl Harbor wasn't built quickly in the 40's. If memory serves correct, The U.S. annexed Hawaii in the 1880's or 90's so there were 50-60 years to build it. When there is both determination AND time, people can accomplish some pretty amazing things. Sometimes determination is enough. Just my thoughts.
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Mikez
Orange Level Access Joined: 16 Jan 2013 Location: Usa Points: 8304 |
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I would say those factors. No road salt, and nowadays it’s engineered to save pennies not to withstand bombings
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shameless dude
Orange Level Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13611 |
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cheapen it up and charge more....the American way!
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9411 |
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Yes sir you are correct but still the war effort was something amazing to say the least. |
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JTOOL
Silver Level Access Joined: 28 Feb 2021 Location: 64720 Points: 346 |
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@Thad in AR.; I agree 100%. I can only begin to imagine what that time was like. Almost the entire nation focused on the war. Kids collecting scrap metal, wives saving their bacon grease, citizens willingly accepting rationing of food and gasoline, every industry converted to making the means to wage war. All for one goal: VICTORY! The only time I experienced what would even come close to that was the time immediately after 9/11.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Apparently you guys need to "subscribe" to the SCIENCE CHANNEL to get the "full effect" of these MASSIVE German "strong holds" !!
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JTOOL
Silver Level Access Joined: 28 Feb 2021 Location: 64720 Points: 346 |
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@FREEDGUY; How about the MASSIVE German railroad gun Schwerer Gustav? Or the MASSIVE German mortar Karl Gerat? Try getting the "full effect" of those. LOL.
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FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5391 |
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Yes. I've seen documentaries on these weapons
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 30709 |
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Cement is nothing more than kilned lime
Almost any pure white limestone can be crushed to powder then kilned into cement, much of the older works in Pearl Harbor were made with crushed coral as the limestone. |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9411 |
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Now that’s neat to learn. I had no idea. I thought all cement was lime. I remember touring an underground bunker In Hawaii that had walls about 3’ thick concrete. The place was right on the beach. From the water it just looked like beach. The place was huge. I could of spent a week looking at stuff there. |
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 30709 |
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A little more info, which BTW, elimination of Coal Burning power stations does away with 'Modern' Roman Concrete technology due to Loss of Fly Ash.
Edited by DMiller - 06 Jun 2021 at 12:47pm |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9411 |
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Not sure about other states but they can’t use Fly ash in concrete in Arkansas anymore. Made good mud. |
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 30709 |
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US EPA saw to that, has elemental Mercury in it, MINUTE amounts but enough for the idiocy to ban its use as that defines a need to burn coal or find a efficient use of residuals from coal burning.
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klinemar
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Points: 7982 |
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The massive Submarine pens along the French Coast were made inoperable by combined Naval Convoys, Sub hunting Aircraft and bombing raids by Royal Air Force Lancaster bombers dropping enormous 10,000 lb Earthquake bombs that weakened the concrete foundations of the Submarine pens.As for the giant Railway guns they were not feasible in modern warfare as the enormous cost to build,transport and fire the gun.And the railways used to move and support the gun were constantly under air attack!
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Ted J
Orange Level Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18786 |
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Especially find the answer in road concrete. They USED to use at least 10 bag mix. I have no idea what they are using now, but I'm sure it's not that much. We've got one stretch of road that was poured in 1953 and is still good, but is being torn up and replaced because "it's old". Politics and spend money.....
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19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
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