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shameless dude 
Orange Level
Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 13607
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 Topic: neighbor planting...
Posted: 30 Apr 2021 at 12:27am |
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today across the highway. has a 16 row pulled by a 4x4 MFA tractor. musta had his GPS working as both markers were still upright and not being used. figgered he was planting about 3-3 1/2 MPH. he's the one in compatition with our renters. see who can plant first by the highway! he wins! seems kinda funny...he has about a 1/2 million $$$ invested in planters, one for corn and one for beans, then 2 pretty new 4x4 MFA tractors for lots more money, then all the puters in/on both. makes me feel good about my $300 6 row AC planter and my 180D. i get the same price for my grains as he does, and the same yields!
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Lars(wi)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Permian Basin
Points: 7188
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Posted: 30 Apr 2021 at 6:50am |
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Shameless you nailed it!!
Often wondered how many farmers failed to be business men first.
I could go on a rant here, but that would delve into politics, and this is the wrong forum for that.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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mdm1
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Onalaska, WI
Points: 2634
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Posted: 30 Apr 2021 at 10:54am |
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Friend was at a farm auction. There was an Amish man next to him. They started to talk and the Amish guy said he couldn't understand why you would spend so much money on equipment. He said they put their money back into equipment and he puts his in his pocket!
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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DanWi
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: wttn
Points: 1778
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Posted: 30 Apr 2021 at 11:43am |
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Just a vicious cycle bigger equipment, more acres, more bushels just to make a living in the end. You will be out there planting with the 6 row and he will be done and headed to the next farm down the road. Then you get to thinking hey! I could get a 12 row planter and put it behind a 7000 series tractor and I would have heat and AC while I am sitting out there. And so it begins. Seems like it is in most peoples nature to want to improve but it comes with cost. I'm not agreeing and saying it is always right just seems thats the way it goes.
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SteveM C/IL
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8235
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Posted: 30 Apr 2021 at 3:21pm |
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Keep in mind that if you make decent money the govt is going to tax the h#ll out of you so you put in machinery instead of giving it to them.
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 22442
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Posted: 30 Apr 2021 at 4:16pm |
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doesn't matter whether you have 100 acres or 100,000, if, at the end of the day, you can pay off all your bills, put food on the table, roof over your families heads...and spend some quality time with family
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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shameless dude
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Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 13607
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Posted: 30 Apr 2021 at 8:22pm |
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Dan...if'n i used my 7010 to plant with, i wouldn't be able to gits my all over tan like i gits on the 180! **FARM NEKKID**
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DanWi
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: wttn
Points: 1778
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Posted: 30 Apr 2021 at 9:55pm |
Shameless if you want to farm nekkid I would want a cab tractor here because we have had times you pull up the collar on your carhart jacket and feel like a turtle trying to pull its head in when you get a cold spring breeze. You outy would end up being an inny 
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DanWi
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: wttn
Points: 1778
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Posted: 30 Apr 2021 at 10:05pm |
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Neighbor was down for over an hour yesterday every thing came up on the computer in the tractor like it should but it would not plant corn. This all started with the first monitor on a corn planter, our first 6 row didn't have one but I remember guys saying they couldn't plant corn because the monitor wasn't working. Then there was more trouble when the duetz allis 12 row had 4 blowers and you turned on the lights to plant at night you made sure you shut off the planter and ran the tractor to charge batteries or it wouldn't start in the morning as it was pulling off the batteries for lights. Now with the hydraulic and electric needs of new planters you need a new tractor to pull one because old tractors just aren't set up for that.
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farmboy520
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Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Location: Beason, IL
Points: 553
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Posted: 01 May 2021 at 7:10am |
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Some new planters or planters with newer electronics will have an alternator on the planter being driven by a hydraulic motor to help with the electrical needs of the planter.
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On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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DanWi
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: wttn
Points: 1778
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Posted: 01 May 2021 at 8:03am |
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I know some have even added a small engine because hydraulics are maxed and they can run a hydraulic pump with electric valves. Almost goes back to the old days of implements with their own power unit.
Edited by DanWi - 01 May 2021 at 8:06am
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Dakota Dave
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: ND
Points: 3938
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Posted: 01 May 2021 at 9:25am |
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the 10 years I worked harvest we dug 1000 acres of beets 2000 acres of pinto beans 2000 acres soy beans and 2000 acres sunflowers. you can do that on your open station if you want but you only get 15 days regardless of weather to get your beets it every thing else works around the beet schedule. the farmer I worked for at that time bought a new truck or tractor every year. he had to spend to get taxes down. so after the harvest party his accountant came up with a number of what must be spent before the end of the year.
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HD6GTOM
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Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Location: MADISON CO IA
Points: 6627
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Posted: 05 May 2021 at 10:07pm |
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A whole lot of corn in the ground around here, Red, Blue, and Green planters running.
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victoryallis
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Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Location: Ludington mi
Points: 2876
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Posted: 07 May 2021 at 12:08am |
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What’s wrong with 2 mfwd tractors and two planters? 8030 and 7100 plants beans and Genesis and 1760 plant corn. We’ve had 5 tractors going at once different times during planting season.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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shameless dude
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Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 13607
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Posted: 12 May 2021 at 1:17am |
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i just think it's an awful lot of money just to plant less than 500 acres. and....i really think the green company is decieving people by not putting enough different power to run their new planters in smaller tractors. especially when a 180...what about 65 HP? can pull an 8-row in the hills with ease!
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 22442
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Posted: 12 May 2021 at 5:29am |
shameless, it's all about getting LOTS of YOUR money, constantly. If 'they' sold you the perfect small tractor to pull the perfct small implements, you'd buy just ONE tractor and implement in your lifetime for your 500 acres. Done, no more sales for them, they go outta business. Same as 'puters. I've not bought a new PC in maybe 4 decades,over 3.5 for SURE.Run old softwares,the equipment does what's needed for me,NO reason to 'upgrade', none. The ONLY way any company survives and thrives is to KEEP selling you their 'stuff'.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Tbone95
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 11600
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Posted: 12 May 2021 at 6:48am |
 victoryallis wrote:
What’s wrong with 2 mfwd tractors and two planters? 8030 and 7100 plants beans and Genesis and 1760 plant corn. We’ve had 5 tractors going at once different times during planting season. |
That's great! IF you have 5 people around that can do something useful on a tractor!
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Tbone95
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 11600
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Posted: 12 May 2021 at 7:21am |
Gotta spend big money to keep the taxes down.....
Eh...I think this philosophy, while true and useful if done in proper balance, is OVER DONE by a lot of people, and they get in trouble.
Difference between an "expense", entire amount of money gets deducted from the income in the tax year it's expended; and capital where you're only allowed to deduct a fraction per year on a depreciation schedule.
Farmers seem famous (at least the ones I know around here) for not wanting to pay a dime in taxes, because it isn't "fair", and while they often pay some tax, paying less and less is the driving goal. If a person gets a paycheck, the taxes get taken out, you have no choice.
One strategy to avoid tax is to lease equipment. This is an expense and not a capital asset. Good news/ bad news. Good news, the whole dollar amount is deducted, bad news is, you don't have that item of worth on your inventory balance sheet.
The other option, keep buying equipment to keep your depreciation deductions up to offset income to reduce taxes. Trouble is, if you abuse this strategy, it runs away on you, and you're left with a mountain of debt. Seems...and this is where I start running out of understanding,.....let's say you're on a simple 10 year straight line depreciation schedule. So you "only" deduct 10% of your equipment purchase. You borrow/buy more and more to get that dollar amount higher. Seems some guys end up spending that 10:1 ratio to get high deductions to offset the income to avoid tax.
I get it to a point, but there comes a point where what's the difference if you pay money to the government or pay money to the bank? What's so terrible about making $10, keeping $7 versus making $10 and spending $100?
Case in point. "Huge" dairy farm nearby. One of the guys graduated high school with my brother in law back in '81. Brother in law would see him, "Hey, you just bought that thingy last year, now you have it parked, seems like you don't use it?" Reply, "yeah, it really doesn't work very well, and we have xxx that does the same thing." "Well then why did you buy it?" Reply, "OH! You have to! Otherwise the taxes will kill you!"
That conversation was 8-10 years ago. The farm is for sale, not selling. Why? $9,000,000 debt! How does it make sense to have that much debt on a 3,4 generation farm???
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Kansas99
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Joined: 26 Feb 2015
Location: W Kansas
Points: 4863
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Posted: 12 May 2021 at 7:56am |
Tbone, the real dagger on tax write offs is accelerated depreciation on financed equipment. Many many farmers and other small businesses fall into the trap. Farmers fall into the trap more often because their biggest capital purchases are not deductible.
What I mean is say you make $100,000 principle land payment with profits of $125,000, now you owe $30,000 taxes on the $100,000 payment but only have $25,000. Your accountant says you can save $30,000 on taxes if you spend $100,000 and it lowers your tax bracket and saves another $10,000 so you take the $25,000 and use it for a down payment on a $110,000 combine, and write off all but the $10,000 residual value and now have $10,000 in your pocket. Sounds pretty good!! Well until the next year when your $100,000 land payment is still not deductible and now your $18,000 combine payment isn't deductible. So now you owe taxes on $118,000 and have $7,000 left over.
Accountants are there to save people tax money not make financial decisions for them and too many people let their accountants make financial decisions that end bad. There always needs to be a balance of cash flow and taxes paid and my rule that you never write off a entire equipment purchase unless you paid cash for it, if you put half down then write off half etc.
Edited by Kansas99 - 12 May 2021 at 8:07am
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"Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin
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Tbone95
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 11600
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Posted: 12 May 2021 at 8:13am |
"What I mean is say you make $100,000 principle land payment with profits of $125,000, now you owe $30,000 taxes on the $100,000 payment but only have $25,000. Your accountant says you can save $30,000 on taxes if you spend $100,000 and it lowers your tax bracket and saves another $10,000 so you take the $25,000 and use it for a down payment on a $110,000 combine, and write off all but the $10,000 residual value and now have $10,000 in your pocket. Sounds pretty good!! Well until the next year when your $100,000 land payment is still not deductible and now your $18,000 combine payment isn't deductible. So now you owe taxes on $118,000 and have $7,000 left over."
Yes, exactly what I was thinking, and then keep digging year after year.
Edited by Tbone95 - 12 May 2021 at 8:13am
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