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TomYaz 
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 Topic: Odd D17 question
Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 10:03am |
Is it possible to take off the battery and put in a magneto on the D17 gassers and hand crank?
I know, why on earth...reasons, I got reasons...
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 11:44am |
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I don't know why you couldn't, it like a WD engine
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Kevingweq
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 6:36pm |
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Why bother with magneto ? just make the distributor adjustable
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TomYaz
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Posted: 24 Dec 2020 at 7:59pm |
 Kevingweq wrote:
Why bother with magneto ? just make the distributor adjustable
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No idea what that is about. If it means I wouldn tneed a battery im interested.
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AaronSEIA
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 5:26am |
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I don't think the D17 crank pulley has lugs for the hand crank to engage. You'd need to set up the spring system to keep it from randomly engaging and there isn't near as much room as there is in front of a WD. There are the tapped holes in the front of the steering block, so you could have all of that out front. I'm sure it could be done, but a higher compression D17 wouldn't be very fun to hand crank.
AaronSEIA
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Gary
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 7:25am |
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Would a front pulley from a 149 Power Unit fit a D-17?
and could the Front Bolster be modified for a CA hand crank ?
G
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Kevingweq
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 10:08am |
TomYaz wrote:
[QUOTE=Kevingweq]Why bother with magneto ? just make the distributor adjustable
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No idea what that is about. If it means I wouldn tneed a battery im interested. [/QUOTE
What I was trying to suggest is with a magneto /hand crank setup most magnetoes have a spring loaded impulse coupling that does two things .It retards spark and gives the mag a quick spin in order to produce a decent spark at hand crank speeds . But by making your distributor manually adjustable you could retard spark timing enough to make it "safe" to hand crank , Battery ,dizzy, points , coil would still be required
Just my tired brain thinking out loud 
Edited by Kevingweq - 25 Dec 2020 at 10:13am
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Gary
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 4:09pm |
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So then what has he gained ? other than a sore arm from hand-cranking
With a magneto: No battery, no starter, no generator, no lights
G
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TomYaz
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 5:44pm |
Gary wrote:
So then what has he gained ? other than a sore arm from hand-cranking
With a magneto: No battery, no starter, no generator, no lights
G |
What he said...want to eliminate the battery.
But upon more study I think my trusty Super c would work as it would meet my HP requirements. I have hand cranked it since I was a boy (when the !@@% battery is weak) and very easy to do so.
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bigal121892
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 5:49pm |
Gary wrote:
So then what has he gained ? other than a sore arm from hand-cranking
With a magneto: No battery, no starter, no generator, no lights
G |
It would also work after an EMP blast.
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Gary
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 6:30pm |
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My limited understanding of a Magneto is when it is spun over it generates Electricity and thus can produce a Spark.
A Distributor on the other hand does not have the ability to
Generate electricity, it simply controls it to produce a Spark at the correct time.
Thus the need for a Charged Battery OR a Generator / Alternator to produce electricity.
So you still need the Battery, even if you Hand Crank it.
That's my understanding of the 2 Electrical Systems.
G
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TomYaz
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 7:35pm |
bigal121892 wrote:
Gary wrote:
So then what has he gained ? other than a sore arm from hand-cranking
With a magneto: No battery, no starter, no generator, no lights
G |
It would also work after an EMP blast. |
Wise man has spoken!
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Dusty MI
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 8:12pm |
One summer I had my 53' WD on the baler every day, the battery was weak and funds were low so I was getting by having to crank the WD every morning, it would start with starter the rest of the day. Then it rained a couple of days and the battery was totally dead, when it dried up and I needed to get back to baling didn't have any jumper cables. The WD had a 6v system, so I hooked a 6v lantern battery to the coil and cranked it by hand, and it started.
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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Bill Long
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 8:25pm |
If you are going to hand crank a D-17 be certain you have a strong arm. When we cranked them for timing or valve adjustment we could feel the effort needed. If your Farmall C would do it with a hand crank it would be easier. Good Luck! Bill Long
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MACK
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 8:46pm |
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I don't understand what this is all about . If he don't want to buy a new battery, put a mag on it and always park it on a hill. When it dies on flat ground, get a neighbor that has a tractor with a battery and a log chain. MACK
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TomYaz
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Posted: 25 Dec 2020 at 9:32pm |
Bill Long wrote:
If you are going to hand crank a D-17 be certain you have a strong arm. When we cranked them for timing or valve adjustment we could feel the effort needed. If your Farmall C would do it with a hand crank it would be easier. Good Luck! Bill Long |
Yeah I think the Super C will suffice... I have been toying with the idea for a few years now of getting a small pto generator and dont want to worry about the battery of the tractor dedicated to it. Never got a "roundtuit" but the thinking crosses my mind every so often hence the question...Well this round of "thinking about it" has actually moved me forward iin my thinking.....I got the tractor figured out and the actual PTO unit figured out....Will bring the topic again up oh maybe in another year or so ;)
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 6:50am |
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That idea will take care of a dead battery ,but if not running the engine much at all ,gas will be next problem .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
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TomYaz
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 3:01pm |
Fred in Pa wrote:
That idea will take care of a dead battery ,but if not running the engine much at all ,gas will be next problem . |
Propane vapor -- just enuff to to get it to my NG hookup.
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john(MI)
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 7:12pm |
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If you only want to get rid of the battery, just use a jumper box to start it.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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TomYaz
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 7:26pm |
john(MI) wrote:
If you only want to get rid of the battery, just use a jumper box to start it.
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I want to start it without any external electrical supply....jumper box--needs utility electricity to charge it. Batterys-need to be kept charged from utility electrcity if dead...
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BrianC
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 8:36pm |
Hey oddball stuff!
Compression release devices aid in manual start. Where do you get that?
It has been stated the magneto probably will fit.
Magneto+battery for starting only- last all summer on a charge? AGM battery better? The jump start boxes.
Solar charger to maintain battery? No utility needed.
off-track:
I see no application here, but I know the small scale wind industry has automobile-size alternators with permanent magnets. I assume you don't need a battery with them? Anyone know? I was just curious on that, I realize that at hand crank speed they could not make enough juice to fire a distributor system.
I think I would try the solar maintainer on a stock D17.
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MACK
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 9:00pm |
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I take it you don't use modern electricity ? MACK
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TomYaz
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 9:53pm |
MACK wrote:
I take it you don't use modern electricity ? MACK |
No I dont, only static electricity is allowed in my religion.
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LionelinKY
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 11:00pm |
TomYaz wrote:
Is it possible to take off the battery and put in a magneto on the D17 gassers and hand crank?
I know, why on earth...reasons, I got reasons... |
The magneto swap would be the easy part. To my knowledge, none of the D series, especially the D17, ever had the capability to be hand cranked. The front bolster has no provision for hand crank components as well as the crankshaft pulley either. Sounds like too much work to convert one to me though I do understand your reasoning for wanting to. Same reasoning that my WD still has and will stay with a magneto setup as long as I am around.
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"My name is Lionel and I'm an Allisoholic"
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LionelinKY
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 11:01pm |
tadams(OH) wrote:
I don't know why you couldn't, it like a WD engine |
D series chassis isn't setup for hand cranking.
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"My name is Lionel and I'm an Allisoholic"
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TomYaz
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 11:03pm |
LionelinKY wrote:
TomYaz wrote:
Is it possible to take off the battery and put in a magneto on the D17 gassers and hand crank?
I know, why on earth...reasons, I got reasons... |
The magneto swap would be the easy part. To my knowledge, none of the D series, especially the D17, ever had the capability to be hand cranked. The front bolster has no provision for hand crank components as well as the crankshaft pulley either. Sounds like too much work to convert one to me though I do understand your reasoning for wanting to. Same reasoning that my WD still has and will stay with a magneto setup as long as I am around. |
Well as I posted earlier, I have since decided to use another tractor. The problem you state just about puts that idea to rest
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HudCo
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 11:10pm |
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400 $ jumper boxes wont last long hooked directly to a starter before they are ruined
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LionelinKY
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Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 11:29pm |
but a higher compression D17 wouldn't be very fun to hand crank. AaronSEIA [/QUOTE]
Shouldn't be that bad. I have no idea what compression my WD45 has or how that compares to a D17 but was always told that our WD45 was equal in power to a D17 due to the way it was rebuilt many years ago. I have been hand cranking it whenever necessary ever since I was a young teen many years ago. It was a little easier back then when the original manifold had a vacuum petcock valve in it that could be opened. The replacement manifold I put on it about 15 years ago doesn't have that but she still starts within the first 2-3 cranks as long as there is still any juice left in the battery at all. Unfortunately, she sits idle more than she used to and I have gotten used to the battery going weak as she sits so I don't even bother with the starter that 1st time. The battery can be low enough to not even spin the engine with the starter but she'll still fire up with just a few cranks with the hand crank. Once she has run long enough to charge the battery back up, she'll start with the starter all day long if need be.
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Lon(MN)
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Posted: 27 Dec 2020 at 7:16am |
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Mount a hand start pony engine to the belt pulley
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john(MI)
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Posted: 27 Dec 2020 at 9:06am |
HudCo wrote:
400 $ jumper boxes wont last long hooked directly to a starter before they are ruined |
You can pickup a jumper box for $50 at HF. You don't need to leave it connected to the tractor with a mag.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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