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BrianC,Ont 
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Location: Belleville Ont
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 Topic: D17 Power Steering HELP!
Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 2:14pm |
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We have a 61 D17 with the Barnes pump that bolts on the back of the generator. Acorrding to Agco parts books that pump is for a diesel prior to serial # 38964. It will steer hard then steer ok then get hard again. We shimmed the rack adjuster, and it has ATF for fluid. How does the pump pick up fluid when the line goes in the top of the pedestal with no tube or filter to go down in the sump. The guy that has it tore apart says the housing is scored some. Going to look at it now. Just seeing if im am over looking anything.
Brian
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35WC on steel, B with belly mower, D17 puller, D15 Series II puller, D15 Series II with loader, 608 Lawn Tractor
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BrianC,Ont
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Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 7:37pm |
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35WC on steel, B with belly mower, D17 puller, D15 Series II puller, D15 Series II with loader, 608 Lawn Tractor
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CTuckerNWIL
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Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 7:48pm |
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I think the most critical thing for good pumping is the clearance between the gear faces and the pump faces. I would think it should not be more than .002-.003 or you won't develop pressure. The first picture looks like the bore is scored but I think the faces are way more critical. The pump face doesn't look bad. What does the top plate look like?
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BrianC,Ont
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Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 7:53pm |
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I didnt measure the clearence, and the top plate looks good. I still dont know how it is supossed to pick up oil in the front support when there is no tube going into the oil. I have looked at Agco parts books and I dont see any thing other than what we have.
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35WC on steel, B with belly mower, D17 puller, D15 Series II puller, D15 Series II with loader, 608 Lawn Tractor
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Gatz in NE
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Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 10:15pm |
Here are 2 pages (hopefully) from I&Ts AC-201. I believe the Barnes pump is plumbed like what's shown in Figure 13 (2nd page)
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Location: Prairie City Ia
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Posted: 15 Oct 2010 at 6:41am |
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That intake tube actually sticks down into the housing several inches. I asked the same question to Bill at Sandy Lake and he told me that there is a nut under the cover on the control valve on the steering shaft. If the nut backs off a little the valve doesn't move correctly giving "hard spots". He tells me that otherwise, the P/S on the D series is pretty much trouble free.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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BrianC,Ont
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Posted: 15 Oct 2010 at 11:09am |
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Gatz; That is how our system is plumbed, but there is nothing that goes down into the sump, just the adapter that screws into the front support. Brian, I will check that nut, but it still isnt pumping enough oil. When I went to clean the pump in the varsol tank, all the needles fell out of the bearings. So at this point does some one have a pump they would sell.
Brian
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35WC on steel, B with belly mower, D17 puller, D15 Series II puller, D15 Series II with loader, 608 Lawn Tractor
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 15 Oct 2010 at 2:33pm |
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The best pump in the world won't do you any good if you are sucking air off the top of the reservoir. That suction line needs to extend down into the oil.
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Gatz in NE
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Posted: 15 Oct 2010 at 3:34pm |
Took off the line and fitting of my D17 and took a pic; there isn't any tube that sticks down inside the reservoir. (I thought there was too)
Evidently (because of the shape of the large casting), when the oil is at the correct fill level, there's enough oil to get sucked up into the pump.
Op's manual says to add oil to cover the large sector gear.
Here's a pic of the fitting removed from the reservoir.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 15 Oct 2010 at 3:41pm |
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The pipe that has a compression fitting that connects to the fitting in your picture could be long enough to reach all the way through the pipe fitting and down into the oil.
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BrettPhillips
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Posted: 15 Oct 2010 at 4:12pm |
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Gatz is correct. As long as the oil is kept 5/8" above the gear per the operator's manual, the location of the suction port guarantees a supply of oil to the pump. There is no stand pipe. BTW, I agree with the thought that you could use a new pump. Those grooves in the housing will allow enough pressure loss to render the pump useless at the rated 1000 psi. Coupled with the bearing issue, it sounds like it's time to find another pump. Don't get rid of your old parts though, someone might need a good shaft, end cap, or set of gears.
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Gatz in NE
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Posted: 15 Oct 2010 at 6:53pm |
In Fig. 13 (item 5 in Fig 13. A) the small tube that does extend well into the reservoir is called the BY-PASS tube (aka "case drain") this serves to allow oil that would otherwise get out the shaft seal to flow into the reservoir.
It connects to the non-pressure area of the pump right ahead of the shaft seal.
The intake tube is the largest of the lines, the pressure line going to the control valve on the left side of the tractor is the medium size line and the smallest one is the By-pass tube. There's a small rubber seal around the By-pass tube where it enters the reservoir and the threaded male nut compresses that rubber seal against the reservoir casting.
Also, in Fig 13 (item 8 in Fig 13 A) the PUMP INTAKE TUBE has a flared end which mates to the top-most part of the adaptor fitting shown in the pic; it does not go through the nut or fitting.
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BrianC,Ont
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Posted: 16 Oct 2010 at 12:18am |
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Brett; Now that Gatz has posted the picture I see that the level that the adapter screws into the front support is lower than the rest of it. So if the level is kept to specs then it will pick up fluid. If I had the tractor here then I might have seen that. Its amazing what a picture will do. And thank's to Gatz for taking the time to take his apart to show me. Now I just have to try to find a pump.
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35WC on steel, B with belly mower, D17 puller, D15 Series II puller, D15 Series II with loader, 608 Lawn Tractor
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