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bobkyllo 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: minnesota
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 Topic: 2006 Ford f150
Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 5:26pm |
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I'm working on a 2006 Ford f150 with the 4.6 v8 motor. The vehicle was running decent. The customer drive it to town shut it off and went into the place of business. They come out started it and proceeded to back up. They claimed it started running real rough and then died. They tried starting it a few times. Most of the time it would start and then die immediately. They said there were times it wouldn't fire at all.
So I towed it to my shop. It indeed wouldn't even fire for me. I left it in the shop over night until I could get the form pump driver module. I've had this be a common fail point. Monday morning I got the part and for grins and laughter I thought I'd hit the key once more. Well... It started. Oh well customer wanted this part changed anyway.
Part installed customer took it. 3 days and many start and stop it was running well. Until Thursday morning. I got word it wouldn't do anything at all. Just engine cranking no fire. So I went to look at it with Dad. I verified the complaint then pounded on the fuel tank thinking the fuel pump went out. Dad cranked I pounded. No luck I stood up I called the pickup a couple names and it started. I now have it in my home shop. It has been starting every time I go in.
I did put a scan tool on it each time. First time it showed no fuel pressure.
This second time I do have a code for fuel pressure sensor range performance. P0191
What are your guys thoughts. I'm leaning towards the pressure sensor giving false readings hence preventing the pump from running.
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 22452
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Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 6:23pm |
OK, some silly things to do.. WHEN were the fuel filters replaced ?? If you remove line at the FI rail, dos gas piss out like mad ? Gotta be careful on this... There's an 'inerita crash switch', right kick panel, 'togle' it a few times... Put a light on the power AT the fuel pump to CONFIRM pump HAS power... Check GROUND from pump to frame, frame to battry -ve
maybe failing pump ?
I have a '97 F150, 4.6, got 84,000 miles on it, still start great, knock on head...
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
Points: 4727
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Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 6:45pm |
A good place to remember the Acronyms: Fix-Or-Repair-Daily, Found-On-Road-Dead, For-Only-Racing-Down-Hill, plus many many more. Backwards: Driver-Returns-On-foot 
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 6:48pm |
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FIRST On Race Day !!!
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: 25 Jan 2020 at 9:39pm |
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my first guess was the FPM... then reading on I see you changed that... then it happened again... m y second guess is the fuel pump... as you said................ there is not much else to that system. ............. 14 years is a pretty good run for that pump.. Don't know the mileage, but I have changed out several when the truck has around 150K miles.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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bobkyllo
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Location: minnesota
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 2:03am |
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They have roughly 180k miles on the vehicle.
When it runs it runs fantastic. No stumbling no hesitation.
I was also leaning twords the pump my self because of the miles but I'm having a hard time convincing my self that it could be this intermittent. I've seldom had a pump that would act up like this but there is always a first for everything.
I'd really like to drive it around until it acts up again and the customer actually told me to keep it for a few days but I really hate to drive it, my luck it'll act up and I'll have to tow it home
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fixer1958
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Location: kansas
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 7:59am |
Whats the fuel pressure. I think spec is 30-45 psi key on engine off. Check your mechanical fuel pressure against what the fuel pressure sensor reads on your scanner. If it different you have 3 sensors that share the 5 volt reference voltage that tells your fuel pump module whats going on through the PCM. If one 5 volt reference is corrupted it is telling lies to the fuel pump module. Fuel pressure sensor, power steering sensor and the EGR sensor. Check for 5 volt at the fuel pressure sensor. If it is not 5 volts unplug each one and see if it returns. Should be a Brown/White wire at the fuel pressure sensor.
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Hubert (Ga)engine7
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Jackson Cnty,GA
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 2:02pm |
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Bob, I had a similar problem on my '99 F150 with the 5.8 at about 200K+ miles. Would not start, let it sit for a while and it might start up, might not. Did not show any codes. Took it to a good Ford mechanic and it took him several days to figure out it was an intermittent problem with the fuel pump.
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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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ac fleet
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 2:09pm |
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You might have gotten a bad "new" pump. It has happened before.
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http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 10:09pm |
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Well guys I thank you very much for all your help and thoughts. I drove it off and on this weekend and no problem arrived which sucks because I know it has one.
I think what we will do as much as I hate to do this is put a wire tap into the power wire going to the pump. I'll give this customer a test light and create a very good ground. They will have to take it and drive it. If it fails they will have to test that wire tap for power. They are mechanical to a point and they agreed they could manage this. At least this way we have eliminated either the bad pump or a bad wire/sensor. Time will tell now.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 6:52am |
Sounds like a very good plan. I hate random,intermitmant problems which of course ALWAYS go away when the test equipment comes out ! I'd probably wire in an LED at the fuelpump, something visible and easy to check. That way when(if) truck fails, they can see if the LED is on or off. If ON....it's a 'bad' pump, if OFF..no power to pump(bad wiring,switch, relay). At least then you KNOW which way to go. I'd suspect the ground wire from the pump assy to the frame. If it's a lug screwed into the frame, saltwater will have corroded the ground wire,vibration can 'upset' current flow.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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baverwolf
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Location: SE Montana
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Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 8:12am |
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I had a 2003 f150 do something very similar. Dealer finally found out the antitheft thing that reads the chip in the ignition key was bad. Replaced it and it was fine. Symptoms sound exactly the same as yours.
Just my 2 cents...
Ben
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 8:41am |
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the pumps done "break"... what happens is the bushings on the end of the shaft wear and the rotor leans to the side and touches or gets close to the windings and the motor STALLS when it trys to start.. If the pump motor stops in the RIGHT spot, it will restart. If it stops in the WRONG spot it will not kick over... as you said, slamming the door or kicking the tank sometimes will get the pump rattled and it will then start. It is not uncommon to have a pump fail to start, then you kick it / slam it / and it continues to work for another week or month. I have had that. 180K miles is PLENTY for the pump.
Edited by steve(ill) - 27 Jan 2020 at 8:43am
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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GARY1967
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Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Location: Indiana
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Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 8:53am |
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Hello I had similar problem with my 2007 F-150. Found bad module, cannot remember the proper name for it. The module was located on left side on rear axle. It somehow got internal corrosion and failed. Don’t remember what it cost, but was an easy fix. Thankfully it was in my driveway when it failed. Truck has 140,000 miles on it now, still going strong. HTH.
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HD6GTOM
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Posted: 27 Jan 2020 at 10:24am |
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At the dealership I saw a lot of those with 80-90000 miles get the fuel pump replaced. Good luck with it. They can be very frustrating.
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