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BearcatnorthMN 
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Location: Baudette, MN
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 Topic: WD front PTO pump
Posted: 28 Sep 2010 at 9:08pm |
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Now and then I read here that guys have put their PTO pumps on the front shaft for hand starting. I remember someone saying theirs has been on there for years with no bearings and still works great. It sounds great to have constant hydraulics and to have my rear PTO free for attatchments. My concerns are: Will it be turning in the right direction? Is it that easy to do? Do you just weld a shaft on or maybe bolt a coupling on? Thanks
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Jim in SE ND
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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Posted: 28 Sep 2010 at 9:27pm |
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Not on WD but we put one on a Farmall M, put on side of frame and ran with a chain, ran all the time, new chain once a year and really no trouble.
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BearcatnorthMN
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Location: Baudette, MN
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Posted: 28 Sep 2010 at 9:39pm |
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That is a good idea Jim. I am thinking of cutting off the hand crank hookup and installing a coupling with another shaft to come out the front of the tractor. On the front end of the shaft I will need PTO grooves to put my pump on. Your method would give me the ability to make the pump turn in either direction. Thanks Jim
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Burgie
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Scottsburg, IN
Points: 1192
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 4:18am |
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Sounds like you have a PTO pump. (540 RPM) What will the engine RPM`s do to the pump??
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"Burgie"
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Bee
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Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Location: NC
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 6:20am |
This guy added an aftermarket pump to run off the front pulley. 
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Bob, North Carolina
1949 B
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 7:01am |
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If you have a PTO driven pump with an 1 3/8 spline on it, I wouldn't waste time trying to figure out a front mount. The WD has live hydraulics from the factory if you know how to use the hand clutch. What are you wanting to run off this pump? The front mounted live pumps need tapped holes in the front crankshaft pulley to mount a lovejoy coupling for direct connecting to the pump. Cutting off a crank will not drive a pump, the engine will always be pushing the crank coupling forward and you would need clearance in the pedestal so the shaft didn't touch the casting. Everything in a set-up like that would need to be concentric and straight or you would have problems. And then, like Burgie says you would have to gear it down. If the driving pulley on the tractor is 4 inches, then the driven pulley would have to be 3 times that or 12 inches in order to get 550 rpm's on the pump, at 1650 engine rpm's. Charlie
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Dave(inMA)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Grafton, MA
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 7:16am |
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My D14 has a hydraulic pump mounted in front of the engine coupled to the crankshaft. Mighty handy when I want to operate the FEL at the same time as the blade on back. Someone welded up mounting brackets and direct-coupled the pump to the crank.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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BearcatnorthMN
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Location: Baudette, MN
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 7:19am |
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This pump runs my loader. The hand clutch works great. I just thought it would be nice to not have to take my pump off the rear PTO and block up my loader with a 4 x 4 when I want to use my brush hog. So that front shaft turns at a different speed than the PTO shaft?
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 7:36am |
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Very much so. If you want to mount a pump driven directly from the engine, you will need a pump designed for engine speed, not one designed PTO speed.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Bull
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Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Location: Lamar, Missouri
Points: 589
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 11:47am |
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I was at a show last weekend and saw a WC highcrop with a suger cane side boom. The pump was powered by the hand crank shaft coupled to the front pulley. The pump sat out in front of the steering block . This thing looked to be all original and was working. I have also seen a WC with a sprocket mounted midway back on the PTO shaft with the pump just ahead of the right axle housing.
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BearcatnorthMN
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Location: Baudette, MN
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 12:32pm |
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So is the engine RPM 1650? The pump I have is an old one. Green-flo or something like that. I suppose the higher RPM would shell out the old pump.... OR like mentioned earlier I would have to try to gear it down with pulleys....
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Good
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Location: Logansport IN
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 1:06pm |
Our Kelly loader on our 45 is ran from crank pulley it is a manufactured mount,uses two bolts vertically on bottom of frame. It does have the pulley for power steering with a flat face and two notches cut in to it. The coulper part we bought at local allis before they closed because it is metal to metal it will wear, first one lasted 40 years or so. It would of had to been offered by Allis. It was in there books.
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B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT
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CTuckerNWIL
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 1:19pm |
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I see no reason to add a PTO pump to run a loader on a WD. The tractor has a built in hydraulic pump that will run a loader without adding a PTO pump. If you have low pressure high volume cylinders on the loader, hook the PTO pump to your belt pulley, then your PTO will be free also.
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MBolton
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Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 6:53pm |
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If your goal is to operate lift arm equipment while leaving the loader on and not having to block it up just install a high pressure ball valve in the rear hydralic coupling. If your bush hog is a pull type and you are only using a cylinder fed off of the rear coupler install the ball valve in the pump body outlet that feeds your loader. Unless the loader cylinders leak badly it should work well.
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Joe(TX)
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Posted: 29 Sep 2010 at 8:46pm |
Good
Is this the setup (Fig 14)?
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Good
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Location: Logansport IN
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Posted: 30 Sep 2010 at 9:13am |
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Joe that is the one (fig 14) I have since went to a vane pump because our valve body relief screw dead heads when screwed all the way in and blew the gear pump apart.It should have never been made that way.Anyway it works real well for us you can't see it and it is protected unlike the D-series pump.
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B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT
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KY
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Joined: 08 Dec 2009
Location: Kentucky
Points: 366
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Posted: 30 Sep 2010 at 3:07pm |
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The easiest way I can see to mount a pump could be off a corn picker pulley that fits in the belt pulley hole. It already has a v belt pulley and could be made to fit pretty easily I think if you wanted the extra hydraulics.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 30 Sep 2010 at 4:28pm |
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It seems like most have missed the question. He has a PTO hydraulic pump to run his loader. He wants to know if he can mount it on the front of the tractor to free up the PTO for bush hog use. The simple answer is no. I have never heard of someone mounting a PTO pump on the front of the tractor. A hydraulic pump made for higher RPM's yes, but NOT a PTO pump.
Bearcat, do you have any pictures of the tractor and loader? If you do upload one here or send it to my email at 1954wd45@gmail.com I would like to see what the loader cylinders are. That might explain the extra pump needed, instead of using the original tractor hydraulics. Charlie
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BearcatnorthMN
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Location: Baudette, MN
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Posted: 30 Sep 2010 at 9:21pm |
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Charlie, you are right on. I just want to free up my PTO for the brush hog and not have to not be able to use my loader at the same time. I have a Du-all loader. Must be same vintage as the WD I am thinking. My WD is a 1951. I will try to get some pics on tomorrow eve. Thanks Barry
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DanNESD
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Location: Milbank, SD
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Posted: 30 Sep 2010 at 9:32pm |
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Every reversed allis (WC WD or WD45) I've seen runs a pump off the end of the crank. I'm not sure how its done but it has been done many many times.
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