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Calling the 454 Gurus,,,,,, |
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13522 |
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Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 9:12pm |
Well,,I finally received the engine parts for the Black Beauty Silverado's new 454 engine but am thinkin the main bearings are wrong size. I had sent the vendor all the numbers on the back side of the rod and main bearings I took out but here is my concern. The factory register of the main bearings is suppossed to be 2.7494. The main bearing journals all mike in at 2.740 (several different places) , which tells me the journals are .0094 +/- smaller than factory, and would require .010 oversize bearings,,,right?,,,.0094 plus .001-.003 clearance= .010 oversize bearings,,Right,,?? Any help out there,,?? CHIT,,I ain't even gots to the rod bearings,,,,YET
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im4racin
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jun 2017 Location: Garrison ND Points: 915 |
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.0094 material missing would be -.0094
.010 bearing would be +.010 material -.0094 + +.010 = +.0006 If it had .003 oil clearance this would leave you with .0024 clearance. You will have to install and plastigauge to be sure |
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ocharry
Silver Level Joined: 26 Jun 2016 Location: missouri Points: 288 |
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hey Joe,,,did you check to see if the journals are round?? that sure seems like a lot of wear,,,has the crank been turned or maybe it needs turned ??
yeah i dont think .0006 is enough,,,,prolly spin one before it got warmed up good,,,,i always liked to see bout .0015 clearance,,,,maybe .002 hows the cam journals and bearings look?? ocharry
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13522 |
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Hey Ocharry,,like I stated in my last post,,The factory register for the main journals is 2.7494. I calipered all the main journals and each at several different places to make sure the journals are not out of round. The caliper readins are uniform at 2.740 throughout all the main journals, so I'm sure they are NOT out of round, BUT,,have been re-ground,,just trying to decide by how much,,, The difference from factory to now is .0094 ,,,so,,,if you allow what the factory recommends for oil film clearance of .001-.003, and you use the middle number of .002 and add thet to the .0094,,you get .011 as the actual clearance from journal to the ID of bearing babbit,,,right,,?? Then you gots to add some oil film clearance of .002 to the ..011 and you gots .013. IF you use .010 oversize bearings you should wind up with .0025 to.003 final clearance,,,,,, RIGHT????? whew,,I ain't ever had this much problems before as the old bearings I took out did not have the oversize stamped on them,,,,chit,, dit, dit, dot, dit,,,,come in in4racin,,,,
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chaskaduo
Orange Level Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Location: Twin Cities Points: 5200 |
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Hey Joe look him up on the members list at top of page click on his username and you get the info he has listed on here for pm and email.
He'd prolly love to hear from ya.
Edited by chaskaduo - 11 Dec 2019 at 12:35pm |
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 30727 |
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Bearings need to be installed and plasti-gauged to determine is wrong or right, the shells get a pre-determined 'Crush' on install and are pressure loaded from that point forward.
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Steve in NJ
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11748 |
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Joe,
I thinks you need to purchase one of dem' dare 502's. There ain't no substitution for cubic inches don't cha know.....! Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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LeonR2013
Orange Level Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500 |
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Joe I agree with plasti-gage to check the clearance for sure. Sounds like you've checked for roundness, so you just have to make sure of your clearances. I assume you're not building this engine for a hot rod, so even if you only have .001 clearance or even a hair less, put thin oil in it to start and be careful. Only let it idle for a minute or so, kill it and let it cool. Even better, if it is a standard, leave the plugs out and pull it so it's turning the engine slow. It's amazing how this can loosen the engine, and with easy driving, you'll be fine. (500-1000 m.)
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13522 |
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Chit,,Steve in NJ,,,I'M IN,,!!!,,,but ,,,but,,,let's go whole hog and shoot for a bad Boy 572 with 9.8 to 1 compression (street friendly) and makin an easy 642 HP,,,tappin it's foot at an easy idle,,,,just a friendly "tap" on the loud pedal and FRY them 12" wide street tires,,,,,,,(we can all dream,,can't we,,???),,but,,,since I ain't gots $12,564,,,guess I'm gonna have to settle for this old wore out 454,,,,,, By the way,,,,,,I couldn't help myself and ordered a stage 3 cam, lifters and heavier springs good for 7500,,,,ya know in case I gots to get out of somebody's way that might be in a hurry,,,Ya just never know when you "May" need some extra hoss's to do it,,,,,, You oughta catch a look at them bish-in valve covers and air cleaner combo that mysteriously showed up on the Fed-ex trk the other day
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13522 |
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OH,,and by the way,,Chask,,, just got thru talkin with Robert up in Garrison, ND,,and he straightened me out on the bearing clearances and how to address the issue,,,, MANY THANKS,,im4racin,,!! I'm gonna call them first thing and get the correct bearings coming asap,,,done lost 3 days messin with this issue,,,,,Chit,,,,,
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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How old are you, Joe....? 21, maybe 22....? I guess you are only as old as you feel...lol.
Glad you are still having fun! Darrel |
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13522 |
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,,,Chit Darrel,,,this engine ain't for me,,, but,,,,but,,,I am gonna have to take it for it's first "shakedown" run,,,,,,,, I gots this Curtain Climber that thinks he gonna die if I don't finish Black Beauty quick so he can cram all of those $100 dollar bills in my pocket soons I give him the keys and the title,,,,,,, He drives by the house every couple of days,,checkin me out,,,,,,Me thinks his daddy is like ole Shameless and gots plenty of them dollars ,,,so,,I'm gonna do the best I can for "Junior",,,,,,
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IBWD MIke
Orange Level Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 3642 |
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When I first saw this post, the 454 Casull was the thing that jumped to mind. Was going to offer some pet loads. When I saw the question it was like; Oh, that 454. Doh!
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 30727 |
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How many remember the Low Block GM Big Blocks? Was a heated argument between myself and two Less than Aged wannabe mechanics. 396/427 series. Some early 454s were also Low Block all the later ones being High Deck.
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im4racin
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jun 2017 Location: Garrison ND Points: 915 |
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What? The only tall deck big blocks were 366 and 427 medium duty trucks. All that were put in cars and pickups were of the short deck design.
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13522 |
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Hey im4racin,,,finally got ahold of the vendor's and they agreed with your numbers and the correct bearings are on the way,,!! I went ahead and southern engineered the rods onto the crank and they all plastigaged right at .002,,so I'm good to go,,just waiting on the new mains to get here to finish assembling the lower end,,, Many THANKS for all your help, Robert.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 30727 |
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Check again im4racin, the later big blocks are all tall deck, the 496 and 502 marine blocks were Tall Block series.
. Edited by DMiller - 14 Dec 2019 at 9:31am |
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8165 |
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I agree with this. After 454's a lot of things changed. Don't think the larger big blocks have much in common with the old RAT engines.
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im4racin
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jun 2017 Location: Garrison ND Points: 915 |
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this conversation is about mark iv big block Chevrolet. If you would really like to confuse readers we should also include mark I stuff too but I doubt you would even know what those were
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 30727 |
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Been building GM engines since likely before you were born.
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shameless dude
Orange Level Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607 |
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Joe...I gots a good 454 in one of my motorhomes here i'd sell ya! it's low mileage! you can pick it up when you come after your tractor!
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13522 |
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What,,? The motor home or the engine after you take it out,,,?? I'M IN....!!!! Just don't you worry,,Good Buddy,,,I'ma gonna go get all them things you promisin me,,,, some soon,,, Say,,,,,!! will thet motor home pull the trailer WITH the Chevy Allis OK,,,?? Ya see,,I could fly into Blair International, get you to pick me up and ,,,,and,,,,,chit,,the sky's the limit,,I can tell,!! I can even help you finish up the "Outdoor Kitchen" and also introduce you to my version of smokin meats,,,,Dang,!!,,,this is gettin GOOD,,!! Best you not make any other plans for at least a couple of week's stay,,,,any longer and I might be overstayin my welcome,,,,, We'd have to reserve a day or so to go visit ole Les,,,see if mine and ole Thad's Vette is still in thet barn of his,,,,UMMmmmm,,,you DID know ole Thad is comin with me,,didn't you,,?? OH,,and we cannot forget a couple of nights at them casinos where you win alla the time,,,I may need some spendin money,,,,, Chit,,,we might be up to 3 weeks now,,,??? More to come later,,,,,,
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ocharry
Silver Level Joined: 26 Jun 2016 Location: missouri Points: 288 |
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hey DJ ,,,man i had some stuff top do around here and i missed a couple days and now we gots a big pretty storm headed our way ,,,,so i gits on here this morn and poooooof,,,,yous talking bout another build,,,,or gather,,,,lol
so ,,,did ya gits yur bearyins fingered out,,,,,get them in and all gauged up ta see whats the clearance is???? and git her fired???? (back in the ol days when i wasa doing this stuff i had me an old distributor shaft i added a piece to ,,,then set it in the oil pump slot and i would put a drill motor on it and spin that oil pump fur a few mins to git all the oil galleries and push rods and lifters and filter full of oil,,,just like it had been runnin BEFORE i fired,,,mebe yous already duzz thet kinda thing,,,just memberin here,,,,no fence ment ) and into the hands of thet youngster wit the fur sure heavy foot ya musta cuzz now you is plannin a trip to shameless's house to gits another project,,,do some cookin and gamble,,,,,,so ol pal,,when ya git ta ol shameless's house could ya looks around and find thet machine thet makes the purdy and maybe dreen out soma thet jet fuel and pour in some watter or kero,,,or pull the plugs or dreen the oil,,,,ur sompin,,,,i know yous a sourceful kina guy,,,,fur an ol pal i was a meanin,,,,urrrrah,,musta had me a ketch in me throat ,,better now,,urrrrah,,see kinda still there,,,,one minute yous a hot rod builder and the next you is a world traveler connisour kinda guy ocharry |
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13522 |
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I,,,,I,,,UHHhhh,,,I'm gonna have to reserve comment at this time Ocharry,,,,I gotta see what ole Shameless's comment may be,,,ya know so I don't quee,,,UMmmm,,,,UMMmmmm,,,ya know mess up a possible great deal,,,,,,
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shameless dude
Orange Level Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607 |
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when you come, you gotta pull the engine out yerself, I know you knows how to do it faster than me. or, you could puts new batteries in it and gimme sum cash, rent a u-haul trailer and haul the tractor home with ya! it takes 2 BIG batteries. and...and...maybe ole Les will help ya? if'n you stay here, you'll hafta share the couch with a Lab and a Golden...they know how to share and gives lots of kisses! and i'll gives ya'll sum grill'in classes while yer here!
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13522 |
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Hey, hey, hey,,,!! This is gettin better alla the time,,,!! We gonna have to go over to the other side of the big muddy and go get ole Les outa hibernation and get him interested in this world again ,,,,,,,I GOT IT,,,!!! We can practice our "Ford Qualities" on his projects and get him where he ain't gots his head in them Fords alla the time,,,,You In,,?? you'll hafta share the couch with a Lab and a Golden... That'd be OK as long as they don't mind if I bring the two Yorkies and the new Hungry along for the trip,,,,,
Edited by desertjoe - 16 Dec 2019 at 8:54am |
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ocharry
Silver Level Joined: 26 Jun 2016 Location: missouri Points: 288 |
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hey,,,,hey,,,,grillin classes,,,,man gits a new motor home and a new tractor,,,go gamblin sleepin on the couch wit the best heaters in the world,,,,man what a trip,,,,
you best be careful shameless,,,,ol joe might not want to leave til spring,,,with you teachin him how to grill and all,,,,what a deal,,,,so i knows joe is a packin to head out i gots to tell you boys ,,,,,my girl friends sisters boyfriend,,,wheeew,,,,made some peekin pies on his grill,,,,he must be like shameless cookin on the grill all the time,,,,but i tell ya thet was the best peekin pie i ever et,,,,i thought my tongue was gona smack my brain out,,,,course thet aint much of a job,,,,that thing was a wagin around for two days,,,,,mmmmmmmmmmm was they good so joe when yous gits there and shameless is holdin class yous better pay tension,and larn sumpin..........jus sayin ocharry
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13522 |
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Well,,,I tell ya'll,,,,,anybody that would forsake a nice, comfy, warm kitchen "Inside" a nice, comfy, Warm house just to go grill and smoke in an Outside kitchen gots to be plumb serious bout cookin and grillin ,,,and ,,,,and,,,,should be listened to,,,,,
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shameless dude
Orange Level Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607 |
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I dun grilled up sum pork (boneless) ribs on the grill tonight, it was about 70 degrees in that cook shack! down to my t-shirt cook'in! was brrrrrrrrrrrr cold outside!
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