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Coke 
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Joined: 30 Sep 2018
Location: MIdwest
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 Topic: Getting a wheel off.
Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 4:11pm |
So newb Q. How do I get a rear wheel off?
It's an adjustable one with the bolts round the outside with the diagonal braces you can slide in and out, so I jacked it up and removed the dozen or so bolts around the central hub, but it still won't move. I tried beating on it with an iron bar, fitting a jack between the frame and rim, levering it with a 2x4, I'm wondering if that central hub part, which is dished and has a weird two square pattern, like you could use a wedge to spin it off, may be holding it on?
I really just need to get this tire sorted before the next round of snow comes in, because it won't hold air for more than 5 minutes.
Ta.
PS, I searched in the Knowledge Base for wheel, only got one hit :(
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 4:22pm |
I had to prop up a long 4by4 and whack from the OTHER side with a 10# sledge, then rotate 45*, do it again, rotate 45* whack.... and the thing finally came off. It was all in the 'setup' I suppose but I didn't want to MISS the 4by4 !!
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Coke
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Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 4:43pm |
Where did you propthe 4x4 against? I was trying to lever it off from the back, between the frame and the tire, which is how I snapped the 2x4, I have a 4x4 but it wouldn't fit in the gap.
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 5:39pm |
I know it was a 'collection' of 'support pieces' but the 4by4 did fit ON the rim lip close to the tire.The closer to the tire the better mechanical advantage. I think it's the 'shock' value that loosens the rust weld..
You could drive down the road,make some turns, it'll come off, probably kill you too.... I know I filed both hub and rim, used a lot of neverseie when I reinstalled them.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
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Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 5:42pm |
Didja try loosening the clamp bolts? They are the 4 -3/4" wrench size bolts, with stop ear attached. Even if you can only get 1 to move, it will take the pressure offa the whole wheel... 
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Sugarmaker
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Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 5:49pm |
Coke, I used a thick hitch cross bar from a Ford Jubille or equivelent. put it across the heads of two wheel bolts installed back in the rim but loose. Then I bolted the rim to the bar in two places with bolts through two of the square holes in the wheel. Heated the area around 6 inch wheel. applied pressure to the cross bar by screwing the two bolts back out of the hub. Applying pressure to pull the rim off the hub. I have done a least two or three this way. I may have a picture of the set up?
HTH Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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john(MI)
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Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 5:50pm |
Are you trying to take the rim off of the center, or rim and center all together? If you took the 8 lug bolts out of the hub to take the rim and center off. With it jacked up and in neutral, hit the tire with a sledge a couple times and then rotate the tire 90* and hit it a couple times, etc. etc. etc.
As was said earlier, loosen the lug bolts and drive it around for a while, swerving back and forth, and it may come loose.
However you decide to do it, you might want to keep a couple bolts in part way to catch it when it does break loose, so you can do a controlled final removal.
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Coke
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 7:24am |
Well, at least I don't feel too bad about not getting it off straight away now.
DiyDave, are the clamp bolts the four on the rim, one on each of those 3 bolt clamps as pictured?
I looked at them and tried to move them, if I take all 4 out, will the
rim just come off without the hub? What pressure are they exerting on
the wheel? I'm thinking about hitting Harbor Freight for an impact
wrench later, I soaked them all in WD-40 before coming in last night.
I just need to be able to get the rim to a tire shop, with or without the central part I suspect.
John(MI), yeah that first thing was what I was doing, spinning the wheel, hitting the tire, but now I think about it, I probably should have reinflated the tire first, I was banging on empty rubber, which probably absorbed most of the impact.
Well a couple more things I can try then, thanks folks.
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 7:32am |
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Jack it up So the rim spins. Hit around the face of the wheel center. Hitting the rubber is about as good as hitting the ground next to the tire. Hammering on the face of the wheel will start the metal vibrating and it will come off. I spray free-all around the hub to help it along. If you can't get the wheel center loose your never going to get the clamp bolts loose. Once you get it off take out the 8 bolts holding the rim clamps to the center lay the wheel down and pound the center out of the rim. Now you can clean up the eccentric assemblies and put back together.
Edited by Dakota Dave - 05 Nov 2019 at 7:34am
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 7:39am |
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If your just trying to fix the tire the tire shop will send a guy out he can break the tire off the rim put in a new tube and be gone without ever taking the wheel off the tractor. He'll have and air powered bead breaker in his truck once you see it in action you'll wonder why you don't have one. Until you find out how much they cost.
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JC-WI
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 7:52am |
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Maybe you can find a big enough bolt to fit through the square hole in wheel center and put a nut on the back side and then turn the wheel up to where the bolt will rest against the final drive and hold the nut on the back side and screw the bolt in against the final... and press the wheel center out and off the lip of the hub.
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Sugarmaker
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Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 8:59am |
Coke, The 4 eccentrics you have circled are cams that are exerting outward tightening force on the rim. They usually dont come off easy. Most of the ones I take apart I have the entire wheel assembly off. layed on the ground. remove the 8 bolts holding the eccentric brackets on. And gently tap the wheel center out with a 10 lb sledge. You can try to turn those eccentrics back countercloclk wise but my guess is that you wont budge them. Your mileage may vary!:) Yes the tire guys would want this left on the tractor to change it tire and or tube. Hopefully your rim is in good shape. Some calcium filled tires can be pretty bad with rust. The method I show in these pictures will work and is safe. Just not for the weak of heart working on these old girls. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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DMiller
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 12:31pm |
I do not remove the centers with the tires and wheels, wait until all that is off so can add leverage to pull centers. My fixing a flat and bad wheel on my 180. 
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C in Concord
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Location: Concord, WI
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 1:02pm |
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If you are going to have to go through all that just to pay someone else to fix tire/tube, you may be better off leaving the rim and center on and using that energy to fix the tire/tube yourself. If you are game for this, I recommend Ken-tool Bead Breaker 33342 with a 4 lb. drill/sledge and a couple tire irons/spoons around 20" long. I replaced a 50+ year old tire on my C with these and I thought it went pretty well (~3 hrs., minimal cursing).
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Leave things better than you found them.
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frnkeore
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 1:09pm |
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Chris,
I love this:
"And gently tap the wheel center out with a 10 lb sledge."
I also had this problem on my D17. I had my wife on the front side with a torch and me on the back side with EVERY tool I had that was 3 ft long, or more, prying between the final and the wheel hub, turning it as I went. It finally moved and with a bit more prying, I got it off.
Chris's idea of using a 3 point draw bar, is a good one and I think I will use it, next time but, I will also put a 3/4 x 16, grade 8 bolt and nut, from the back side of the draw bar, to the hub and push that way, too.
Here, the tire company that I use, charges $50 to dismount and mount a tire and they charge $100 to come out and do it. I would have gladly had them come out, if I'd known how hard it was going to be!!
I have to do it again on the other side BUT, I have calcium damage at the valve stem and I have to repair that so, it will have to come off, too :(
BTW, I also tried a slide hammer on the square holes, with about a 8 lb weight. It didn't help.
Edited by frnkeore - 05 Nov 2019 at 1:13pm
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Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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Coke
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 2:25pm |
 Dakota Dave wrote:
If your just trying to fix the tire the tire shop will send a guy out he can break the tire off the rim put in a new tube and be gone without ever taking the wheel off the tractor. He'll have and air powered bead breaker in his truck once you see it in action you'll wonder why you don't have one. Until you find out how much they cost. |
See I figured a call out would cost way more than the work on the tire? Plus it gave me a reason to get a lift jack.
But after reading all the stories, I just called the tire shop.
Edited by Coke - 05 Nov 2019 at 2:43pm
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1957 D17 Diesel w/ M&W Pistons
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Dave(inMA)
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 2:48pm |
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Dakota Dave's advice from 8:32 this morning is what I did when removing rear tires from my tractors - most recently my CA. The problem is that rust is welding the center to the hub - it forms between the rim of the hole in the center and the hub. Getting the rim locks to release is another story. If they don't want to turn, it's likely that they're thoroughly rusted in place. An impact tool MAY loosen them but most likely not. If so...lay the tire, back side down, on the floor and as Sugarmaker says, give the center some love taps with the heaviest hammer you have. I put a 4x4 block on the center to avoid damaging anything. Once the center starts to move downward, another tap will cause it and the rim locks to fall out. Dennis Anderson has a video on Youtube that goes through this process as well as rehabbing the rim locks. Good luck.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 4:44pm |
Coke, You may have done the right thing. Just keep in mind if you do ever have to take the wheel assembly off the tractor you still have to go through the work! When I start on one of these and get to the point I am ready to gently tap it with the 10 lb sledge. All bets are off. This is going to happen NOW!
It may not be clear in my write up or picture/s, but I am using the two wheel bolts to jack the wheel center off the stuck 6 inch dia.. The one in the picture sounded like a 06 rifle when it broke free. The guy with the torch always wins! And you can fix almost anything with a torch and a 10 lb hammer! Some of these old tractor projects are just not easy. Having some basic tools helps. But calling in help to get the tractor going again may have been your best move.
Add blaster to the 6 inch dia joint over the next several months wont hurt a thing! Take the wheel bolts out and squirt blaster in the joint from there too. Next time you try it may fall off. We need pictures! Did you buy new tires? Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 5:43pm |
Coke wrote:
Well, at least I don't feel too bad about not getting it off straight away now.
DiyDave, are the clamp bolts the four on the rim, one on each of those 3 bolt clamps as pictured?
I looked at them and tried to move them, if I take all 4 out, will the
rim just come off without the hub? What pressure are they exerting on
the wheel? I'm thinking about hitting Harbor Freight for an impact
wrench later, I soaked them all in WD-40 before coming in last night.
I just need to be able to get the rim to a tire shop, with or without the central part I suspect.
John(MI), yeah that first thing was what I was doing, spinning the wheel, hitting the tire, but now I think about it, I probably should have reinflated the tire first, I was banging on empty rubber, which probably absorbed most of the impact.
Well a couple more things I can try then, thanks folks.
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Now that I see a picture, it clears things up. Were it mine, I'd take off the 8 bolts, below the clamp cams, assuming you can't get the cams moving. Generally, once these bolts are out, a few love taps with a 10 lb sledge, from the rear side, inside, and the whole mess kinda collapses...
As for the stuck cams, as others have said, these are cams, not bolts, and there is an additional 4 parts, that need to be accounted for (don't lose them): Don't know what the correct name for them is, but I call them cam sliders, they ride between the cam, and the rail, and generally fall out, when removing the cam assembly.
Lets see if I can find the video....
[TUBE]l2qXT3GGc5w[/TUBE]
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frnkeore
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 6:46pm |
Sugarmaker wrote:
And you can fix almost anything with a torch and a 10 lb hammer! Regards, Chris |
I would modify that saying a little, to: "You can take most anything apart, with a torch and a 10 lb hammer" ;)
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Frank
1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14
'55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861
Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 8:35pm |
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Standing behind the tractor, use an 8 ft long piece of 1 1/2" pipe and wedge it between the final drive housing and the wheel center and pull hard to the left or right and pry it off. I've never ever had one I couldn't pry off that way and never used a torch either.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 9:15pm |
Coke, Dr. has a real good simple approach. I like it! Hope you have the tractor up and going soon! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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