Seized Diesel engine

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   Hi everyone one. Just to pre warn you this is not Allis Chalmers related, but because your advice has been so good in the past I thought I would at least ask.

I bought a Leyland 154 last week at a bargain price an absolute bargain. 
But I knew there was a possibility that the engine might be frozen.

It turns out it is. I cracked the sump bolt and water drained off before the oil. I took out all the diesel injectors to squirt some oil down the bores. The last one I took out was cylinder 3 and water  came out of its bore. 

The exhaust is is rusted through and snapped of at the silencer/baffler. It ran when parked up about 5 years ago. 
I’m thinking that water has ran down the exhaust and filled the top of the piston cylinder over time on number 3 through the open exhaust valve possibly. 

Obviously it could be the water jacket or head gasket. 

But.....at this point i would just like to know what you guys would try before taking the head off? Any mirical products out there to free it off and dissolve any rust internally?

Cheers folks.

Dan

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2011dandd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 25 Jul 2018 Location: Northants uk Points: 106	Post Options Post Reply Quote 2011dandd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Seized Diesel engine Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 3:15am
	Hi everyone one. Just to pre warn you this is not Allis Chalmers related, but because your advice has been so good in the past I thought I would at least ask. I bought a Leyland 154 last week at a bargain price an absolute bargain. But I knew there was a possibility that the engine might be frozen. It turns out it is. I cracked the sump bolt and water drained off before the oil. I took out all the diesel injectors to squirt some oil down the bores. The last one I took out was cylinder 3 and water came out of its bore. The exhaust is is rusted through and snapped of at the silencer/baffler. It ran when parked up about 5 years ago. I’m thinking that water has ran down the exhaust and filled the top of the piston cylinder over time on number 3 through the open exhaust valve possibly. Obviously it could be the water jacket or head gasket. But.....at this point i would just like to know what you guys would try before taking the head off? Any mirical products out there to free it off and dissolve any rust internally? Cheers folks. Dan

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JC-WI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33779	Post Options Post Reply Quote JC-WI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 4:36am
	suck the water out and fill the hole with coke and let it sit a day?... Maybe not even that long... Have you ever seen what coke does to nails that is placed in it... they dissolve in not to long of a time. and as for breaking it loose, pull the starter out, make an adapter that fits the hole and engages the ring gear then rock it back and forth to get it moving... just don't bust any teeth... or bend any rods... Good Luck. and the coke idea I have never tried, but the fellow telling me said it worked...
	He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."

jaybmiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22252	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaybmiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 5:55am
	a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone works really well. Someone did study, posted it here ,years ago , nd it was way better than commercail products. I filled all 4 cylinders of 'Troy' D-14#1 as it'd sat 25+ years.,then walked away for a day. came back,put pipe wrench on PTO shft, tried to rotate. nothing. topped up cylinders, went away for another day.tried agin... repeated this for 14 days... yes 2 weeks..day 15 it MOVED, just a bit,I stopped, added more, left. It took anothr 3-4 days but he spun over nicely,been running perfect since then ( 19 yers !). Patience is the key..go slow and you won't break $$$$$$ stuff that'll use up all your 'free' time. I've used the 50/50 mix 6-7 times since then and every engines come back to life. It HAS to work, cause I ain't THAT lucky !
	3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water

2011dandd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 25 Jul 2018 Location: Northants uk Points: 106	Post Options Post Reply Quote 2011dandd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 6:27am
	Thanks guys great advice. I have used atf/acetone mix before to free up stuck bolts etc, but will give it ago down the ports. So in your 2 week patient work on your tractor did you simply use the 50/50 mix and once free run it or did you take the head off and clean and rebuild?

jaybmiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22252	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaybmiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 6:41am
	I didn't take the head off. Took valve cover off to confirm 'things' went up and down the right way though.. also removed HUGE 'mousehouse' from bell housing( pee-you !!) Once PTO went say 1/8th turn, I'd go back and forth,slowly, and over a week I could get more 'arc' or range of rotation, NEVER fast...once 'resistance' was felt ,stopped, went other way. Same as removing tight nuts,... little off, some on, more off,some on,..eventually the nut comes off.. Jay
	3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water

DougG Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8091	Post Options Post Reply Quote DougG Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 1:52pm
	My opinion, if its stuck that tight you may want to find another engine,, rebuilding them any more is crazy high dollars ,,

Larry in NC Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 09 Feb 2016 Location: NC Points: 1048	Post Options Post Reply Quote Larry in NC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 2:20pm
	If water ran down the exhaust over a period of time, you will have rust in the cylinders and around the valves. That mess has to been cleaned out so the engine can run if you can get it freed up. You have to pull the head to do that. If an engine has been stored in inside and is dry stuck, you can get by with soaking the cylinders to get the engine free. At least that has been my experience with stuck engines.

ryanschott Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 10 Apr 2010 Location: michigan Points: 601	Post Options Post Reply Quote ryanschott Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 5:10pm
	That much water and rust it has ate up the inside of the cylinders by now I would take head off. Even if you got it unfroze you can’t run it with bad piston sleeve and rings

Boss Man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 03 Mar 2018 Location: Greenleaf, WI Points: 616	Post Options Post Reply Quote Boss Man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 5:50pm
	A diesel needs cylinders in near perfect condition to start and run properly. I'd get it loose then pull the head and access the situation. Rings wont properly seal on pitted walls.