180 hydraulic pump questions

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   My 180 triple stage hydraulic pump just failed.  Some piece of metal got jammed between the gears and spun the gear on the drive shaft.  The $1500 price (lowest I found so far) for a replacement is staggering.  Trying to determine if I have cheaper options. 
1) Would it be possible to replace with a (presumably cheaper) 2 stage pump?  I'm not sure how the traction booster works or if I need it, could it be disabled or plumbed into the center stage?
2) Trying to determine where the piece of metal came from that precipatated the failure.  It has the look of a ball bearing. Could it have come from the pump itself somewhere or was it sucked in?
3) For about $300 I can get the shaft and gear assy and a seal kit.  Unless retrofitting to a cheaper pump is an option, I'm tempted to try the repair route, but would like to have confidence there is not more wrong that I haven't discovered yet.
Thank you,
Roger

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flyinaggie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote flyinaggie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 180 hydraulic pump questions Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 12:12pm
	My 180 triple stage hydraulic pump just failed. Some piece of metal got jammed between the gears and spun the gear on the drive shaft. The $1500 price (lowest I found so far) for a replacement is staggering. Trying to determine if I have cheaper options. 1) Would it be possible to replace with a (presumably cheaper) 2 stage pump? I'm not sure how the traction booster works or if I need it, could it be disabled or plumbed into the center stage? 2) Trying to determine where the piece of metal came from that precipatated the failure. It has the look of a ball bearing. Could it have come from the pump itself somewhere or was it sucked in? 3) For about $300 I can get the shaft and gear assy and a seal kit. Unless retrofitting to a cheaper pump is an option, I'm tempted to try the repair route, but would like to have confidence there is not more wrong that I haven't discovered yet. Thank you, Roger

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Jim Blue Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Medina, Ohio Points: 31	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jim Blue Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 12:57pm
	Roger - I have not seen a lot of response on this site when it comes to hydraulics issues. I tried to repair an old D-10 valve and found out it will take more than the available parts. Allis Chalmers did not make the valve on my tractor so an independent hydraulic repair shop is an option. Your pump may not be Allis either. I found a competent repair shop to look at my valve and you may be able to do the same. For $70 - $100 or so they should be able to disassemble, diagnosis and give you a repair cost so you can decide what to do. I know hard parts are no longer available for my valve so it is repair or discard. You may need a hydraulic shop authorized by the pump mfg. to do the repair. Allis will probably not allow the pump mfg. to sell Allis OEM parts but should let them use OEM parts to do a repair.

Chris/CT Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Niantic, Ct Points: 1939	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chris/CT Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 2:01pm
	If you have Mechanical abilities, get good Service manual/Parts manual and follow the directions given on R+R of your pump. Once the tractor is split, you can look around to determine what broke off. Buy the parts to repair pump and go to work and fix it. The hardest part of this operation is safe rigging/stands for splitting the tractor. I have been playing tractor tear down for last few day's, the work is the easy part, lifting the HEAVY components is hardest on the body.

Wade (IA) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Osceola, IA Points: 232	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wade (IA) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 2:09pm
	I lost the 3 stage pump on my 190 last year. I took it off and a hydraulic shop in DM told me the same thing, they could get a seal kit and some small parts, but the main gears and wear plates between the sections were NLA. They priced me a new one @ $1,200.00. I decided to look around and I found a used one. It has been running ever since. I just couldn't justify the money for a new pump. Having the 3 sections makes the old style pump expensive.

Dusty MI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Charlotte, Mi Points: 5058	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dusty MI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 6:29pm
	Jim Blue, which hydraulic system do you have on that D-10? I have a late model D-10 series III. The remote hydraulics work but the factory 3 point does not work. It doesn't seem to be getting oil to the cylinders. I've been into the Traction Booster section, it was clean. The rubber dampers in the shaft coupling were gone, so I had thought there might be come ground rubber in that section. I'm still lost as to where to look next. Thanks, Dusty
	917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"

DougG Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8183	Post Options Post Reply Quote DougG Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 7:13pm
	Check EBAY, sometimes there are used one for auction

joshjohndeere Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 22 May 2010 Location: nebraska Points: 73	Post Options Post Reply Quote joshjohndeere Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 9:43pm
	im not sure what sum of these guys are thinking but the hyd. pump is mounted externally on the engine of a 180 u dont have to split the tractor to remove the pump. as for rebuilding the pump it is like any diesel instructor or even my grandfather would say, its just nuts and bolts put it together the same way as it came apart if u question wether sumthing is worn badly replace it, it probably is. as for the pump itself i just rebuilt my own a week ago with parts from my local dealer even a couple intermediate plates and did it for way less than the price u were quoted. but if u doubt yourself just buy the new one, be happy thats how cheap it is if u were buying a pump for a newer john deere they cost 2000.00 and higher trust me i know i see them every month. hope u have good luck with what ever u decide to do.

Jim Blue Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Medina, Ohio Points: 31	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jim Blue Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Aug 2010 at 10:32am
	Dusty - Mine does not have Traction Boost, it has the pump mounted on the right side of the engine driven off the camshaft. The pump makes noise, the control valve and cylinders leak so I have plenty to do to get it working. I have a D-12 with the trans mounted pump with Traction Boost and non-working lift arms. It also has a front mounted hydraulic system driven by a crankshaft coupling used for a mower by a local township for many years. I doubt the lift arms were ever used so I expect all I ned to do is clean it up with some new seals. Since these are on the to do list I do not have any helpful experience to share right now.