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jkoby 
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Location: New Castle, IN
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 Topic: WD Hydraulic question
Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 5:17pm |
I've searched (even commented on one in the past) about this issue, but just kinda curious if you guys think I should pull the pump.
Today, it was about 7F outside. Tractor had been inside where it was about 30F. Took it outside and with a 200lb blade on the back, it would take a couple minutes to raise the blade high enough to spin around and head back to do the next pass of snow removal.
So, would the 7F be cold enough that the 20ND oil would be too thick (even thought it sat inside the 30F garage before i got to work). Or do I have a stuck plunger?
What else should I check or consider?
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Dakota Dave
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Location: ND
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Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 5:31pm |
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Warm it up drain that oil out and refill with hytrans.it should be 10W for winter and 20 for summer. My C with 20w ND had to sit and warm up any time it was below freezing. Since you were in a warm shed it should have worked normal. Once it's warmed up using the tractor will keep the oil warm. Before I took it apart I'd warm it up and change the oil. It's possable you have a little water in it or a stuck check ball. Heat and drain will often fix it. It was 15 below here this morning and My WD 45 with hytrans worked no problems I did have to let the engine warm up about 5 minutes before getting to work.
Edited by Dakota Dave - 16 Jan 2018 at 5:32pm
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jkoby
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Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 6:50pm |
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I guess I can try hytrans again. Wasn't happy with it the last time I had it in there.
Would starting at 30F still be too cold for 20ND?
I ran it for about 40mins and it still was not wanting to lift.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 9:21pm |
I've had universal transdraulic fluid in my 45 for over 30 years. Wouldn't use anything eles. Same oil winter or summer, but if it's below 0*F, I didn't even try to start the tractor 
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truckerfarmer
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Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 9:59pm |
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I run 30 wt hydraulic oil in mine year round. More inclined to think pump is getting weak. If possible,hook a pressure gauge in line and see what you have for pressure. Will need a 5000# guage. Should be able to get close to 3400 psi if everything is working.
Mine sit outside all the time. Use my WD to move snow, even when it's below 0.
Edited by truckerfarmer - 16 Jan 2018 at 10:02pm
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Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer
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jkoby
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Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 10:07pm |
I have a 5000psi gauge. will just need to get the right fittings.
I'm sure I'm nowhere close to 3400psi.
the other day, the blade would sometimes move up quickly. other times, slow. Today it was one speed. SLOW.
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B26240
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 6:15am |
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The guys above are probably right but I would also check your linkage to make sure the valve on the pump is rotating all the way. Standing on the ground by pump side of tractor move lever on colume to the up position and then reach down and try to rotate valve watching to see if blade is lifting faster.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 7:05am |
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Might have some H2O in the system.Catch a warm spell add some Seafoam run it a while,use the hydraulics then drain it and put in new oil.Might add some automatic transmission fluid when you add the Seafoam to help clean out everything.
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jkoby
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 12:45pm |
 B26240 wrote:
The guys above are probably right but I would also check your linkage to make sure the valve on the pump is rotating all the way. Standing on the ground by pump side of tractor move lever on colume to the up position and then reach down and try to rotate valve watching to see if blade is lifting faster. |
I did check the linkage and it appears it is moving all the way up. I tried moving it once I had the lever raised, and it wouldn't budge.
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Stan IL&TN
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 2:12pm |
Low Pressure: 1. Unloading valve leaking at ball or O Rings. 2. Control valves stuck to rear. 3. Pump low on oil 4. Plungers stuck or springs broken. 5. Unloading valve or O rings leaking, causes slow raising rate at full throttle. The pump operating temperature is approximately 250 to 280 degrees F. Use SAE 20 or 20W for temperatures above 45 degrees F. Use SAE 10 or 10W for temperatures below 45 degrees F. From the service manual. Hope this helps.  |
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 2:34pm |
Hi, Several of the mentioned things could be a issue? I will ask: did the hudraulics work ok when warm? At 30 F in the garage it should work pretty good? I just changed out the hydraulic oil in my WD45. In this cold weather it took forever to lift and it seemed the handle would not move all the way up or down. I think the old oil was very heavy and that there was some water in there freezing the controls. So during the last cold spell I drained the reservoir which is the first drain behind the engine, and also the little sump on the bottom of the pump. Refilled with about 5 quarts of 10W Hydraulic fluid. Seems to be working great now even at 15 deg F. Hope that helps? Keep in mind that you still could have a problem with your pump too? Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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jkoby
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 4:08pm |
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When I first started it in the garage it was slow as well. My hope was once I got it moving, it would speed up. Instead, there was no change.
I was just reading the service manual. I will need to study it a little more. Could there be any way to check any of those items without pulling the pump?
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jkoby
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 4:10pm |
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And it does have plenty of oil. Actually, maybe too much. I guess i didnt realize it was on a hill the last time I added oil.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 4:11pm |
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What kind of oil do you have in it?
If it's heavy gear lube, you can forget about speed until well above 50* F.
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Rotobale
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 5:39pm |
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It's been bitter cold here in WNY, when I go out to plow snow with the D14 I have to idle way down to get the pump to work . It seems like the pistons in the pump don't have time to come back out until she warms up some.
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jkoby
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 6:45pm |
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It is currently running 20w non detergent.
I was running just a tick above idle.
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 7:11pm |
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You might try dumping in a qt. of brake fluid. Is not subject to the cold as regular oil, plus it tightens up any seals that are involved. Plus when you run your pressure test, if it is low there is a plug on the back of the pump that you take out and you can drive the pressure regulator forward which will raise the pressure. Pretty hard to move. But that may be you problem and not the oil or the cold in particular. But if you have low pressure, the colder it is the worse it will be.
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EPALLIS
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 8:38pm |
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I'd agree with Mr. Tucker. If it's heavy gear lube, you can forget about speed until well above 50* F. And if it's close to 0' don't bother to start it.
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jkoby
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 8:42pm |
EPALLIS wrote:
I'd agree with Mr. Tucker. If it's heavy gear lube, you can forget about speed until well above 50* F. And if it's close to 0' don't bother to start it. |
Is 20W ND considered heavy? When I hear "heavy gear lube," I think 90W, not 20w.
Edited by jkoby - 17 Jan 2018 at 8:43pm
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jkoby
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 8:53pm |
LeonR2013 wrote:
You might try dumping in a qt. of brake fluid. Is not subject to the cold as regular oil, plus it tightens up any seals that are involved. Plus when you run your pressure test, if it is low there is a plug on the back of the pump that you take out and you can drive the pressure regulator forward which will raise the pressure. Pretty hard to move. But that may be you problem and not the oil or the cold in particular. But if you have low pressure, the colder it is the worse it will be. |
This seems like the simplest test and procedure to start with. If I figure out how to drive the pressure regulator forward, will it retain that position or is it a simple test that is only done to reveal what needs to be done next to do a long term fix?
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1951WDNWWI
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Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 9:31pm |
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My 1951 WD has 20 wt non detergent oil for the hydraulics. I idle it for about 2 minutes before I raise the rear blade. That is all the time it takes even at 12 below 0 Fahrenheit for the hydraulics to start working on our tractor.
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MACK
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Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 7:25am |
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There is no plug on a WD pump to raise pressure. That plug is on B and C pump. MACK
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jkoby
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Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 8:22pm |
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I got the parts to connect my 5000psi gauge to the remote. Will try to assemble tomorrow (if I have time). Figure I would pull it out and test it with my blade unhooked. Then let it run for a while in the sun with the hydraulics lowered, then test it again.
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jkoby
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Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 4:32pm |
Ok. I hooked up my pressure gauge. First off, please ignore the vice grips on my battery cable. lol
When I tell the hydraulics to raise without a load on them, it would peak around 1800psi, then bounce between 1400psi and 1800psi
Another time, it was bouncing between 1200 and 1400psi.
So, experts, thoughts?
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 7:02pm |
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I could go out on a limb here and guess you have a couple, maybe 3 pistons hung up on the pump. One is high pressure, the other 3 are for volume. If the high pressure plunger is stuck in and maybe one or 2 of the others, it will be slow and never reach the 32-3400 PSI it should put out.
Taking the pump off and flushing it with diesel fuel may be all it needs? A little tapping on the rollers of the stuck plungers can get them moving if springs aren't broken.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 9:14am |
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Pretty much whatever is wrong will require pump removal and teardown, as long as screw "D" is all the way out.
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jkoby
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Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 9:27am |
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Yes, screw 'D' is turned all of the way out.
Edited by jkoby - 23 Jan 2018 at 9:28am
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Allis dave
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Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 10:44am |
I had very low pressure on mine, 800PSI. and 2 of the check valve springs were wore through. You can get to them by taking the hold valve off and unscrewing the "nuts" off the top of the pump. Of course half the fight is getting the steel lines lined back up on the hold valve, so you almost might as well take the whole thing off and check the plungers and replace seals. Get the WD45 service manual, it explains the pump rebuild VERY well.
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