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| Diesel coolant cavitation | 
| Post Reply   | Page 12> | 
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| Bob J Wi   Orange Level     Joined: 25 Mar 2011 Location: Wisconsin Points: 270 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Topic: Diesel coolant cavitation Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 3:34pm | 
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What is coolant cavitation? What additive is recommended? I never read or heard about this problem. Thanks for any help. I have an AC 200. | |
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| DrAllis   Orange Level Access   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22140 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 3:37pm | 
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If you use treated anti-freeze from Cummins or Caterpillar, you'll never have an issue. When you see wet sleeves with termite holes eaten in them from the water side, that is cavitation erosion.
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| JoeM(GA)   Orange Level   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Cumming,GA Points: 4846 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 4:06pm | 
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   lots on the web if you google it, but this explains it pretty good -  http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2015/03/cavitation-erosion-in-diesel-cylinders/ | |
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     Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB | |
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| FREEDGUY   Orange Level Access     Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 7:17pm | 
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   Can an 190 XT ('69 diesel) be upgraded with a coolant filter ?
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| Ron(AB)   Orange Level     Joined: 27 Dec 2009 Location: Alberta Points: 962 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 7:28pm | 
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   Yes. Any tractor can have one. | |
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| DrAllis   Orange Level Access   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22140 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 7:37pm | 
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Why anyone would go to the trouble and expense of mounting a filter when you can just use the CORRECT coolant is beyond me. Any coolant filter will have at least 4 possible places to leak as things get older.
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| Anthony   Orange Level     Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Alva, Oklahoma Points: 731 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 7:47pm | 
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   I use fleet guard coolant in all my diesels and it comes with the additive already in it. Just flush and add and no more worries. | |
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| FREEDGUY   Orange Level Access     Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 9:00pm | 
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   I was merely asking a question   . Can someone (DOC) elaborate on the proper coolant in the XT, or ANY diesel engine please?? | |
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| lentsch   Silver Level     Joined: 10 Feb 2011 Location: Glencoe,Mn. Points: 236 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 10:19pm | 
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   You can get test kits and additives from auto parts stores or truck parts dealers to keep the ph level correct.
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     WD,D15,190XT,7000,8010x2,7060,8070
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| DSeries4   Orange Level     Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7533 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 22 Dec 2017 at 10:35pm | 
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   I get antifreeze for diesel engines from NAPA. | |
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     '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185,  '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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| Lonn   Orange Level     Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29817 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 7:34am | 
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   In school many years ago the teach said that once cavitation has started it is very hard to stop because the additive can't get into the very tiny cavitations so they keep growing until you have a hole. How true, I don't know.
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     -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -  Wink I am a Russian Bot | |
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| JoeO(CMO)   Orange Level     Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Cent Missouri Points: 2696 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 7:54am | 
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I first heard of this problem a number of years ago when I purchased a 185 and replacing a water pump. I went to the Green place to see if they had something to add and ended up buying the Cool Gard, also purchased Torq Gard for oil change. I felt if green can get along, orange can also make it; hey, this keeps them off my back.  | |
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| DrAllis   Orange Level Access   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22140 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 8:51am | 
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It's always best to use the treated coolant from the beginning, but never too late to start using it. Those 301 diesel engines are plagued with cavitation erosion AND failing O-rings on the sleeves. I've used treated coolant since 1977 and never have had an engine go down from sleeve pits or O-ring failure, if the Customer faithfully maintained the cooling system.
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| Mike Kroupa   Silver Level   Joined: 02 Oct 2009 Location: pierce, ne Points: 337 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 9:56am | 
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   Lots of good info here, I've always added Donaldson DCA4 coolant additive to my diesel engines. I have just run the Low Silicate green type coolant and add the coolant additive to it and check the levels with the test strips. I also add it to the Sisu engines that do not call for anything, because of their midrib-supported sleeves. Something else to consider is using  distilled water if mixing your own coolant. This would be recommended if your water test high in minerals. , Mike
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| DrAllis   Orange Level Access   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22140 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 10:59am | 
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Distilled water + heavy duty antifreeze + Nalcool 2000 additive is what is started with in 1977. In the last 20 years you can purchase the really good stuff already pre-mixed from Cat and Cummins and I'm sure others. The good stuff is usually a pinkish color what I am used to seeing.
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| FREEDGUY   Orange Level Access     Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 8:29pm | 
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   Thanks to all posters for VERY helpful info    | |
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| WD45Diesel57   Orange Level     Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Location: Varna, Ont. Can Points: 646 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 8:50pm | 
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   I use john Deere cool guard in my d17 diesel and 7020 suppose to be good stuff and reasonably priced too!
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     1-B's, 2-C, 2-CA's,2-WF, 1-WC,1-G, 3-WD's, 2-WD45, 1-RC, 1-D17 Diesel, 1-D14, 2-D15,1-D17 row crop,1-D19 gas and All Crop 40,60,66,72,90 and 100
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| FREEDGUY   Orange Level Access     Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 9:08pm | 
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   Is it just the 301 engine or ALL ALLIS diesel engines? We also have a 433T in the F2.
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| DrAllis   Orange Level Access   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22140 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 9:24pm | 
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Any diesel engine can potentially do it. Wet sleeves are worse. 301's seem to me to be worse than 426's or 200 inch 4-bangers.
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| FREEDGUY   Orange Level Access     Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Dec 2017 at 9:25pm | 
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   Thanks
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| john(MI)   Orange Level     Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9262 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 24 Dec 2017 at 12:45am | 
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   A friend gave me a quart of CAT additive.  Whenever I change coolant I just add the specified amount.  I don't know if it's working, but the tractor keeps running so I'm happy. | |
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     D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446  
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| JimWenigOH   Orange Level   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NC Ohio Points: 1198 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 4:46pm | 
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   Some time ago, this subject came up. From what I remember, there was a photo of a used coolant filter which had been cut open showing the particulates the filter had caught. To me that is one good reason to use the filter. I installed one on the 220 and am in the process of installing one on the XT. I'll be cutting my next used filter open for my own test results. | |
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| FREEDGUY   Orange Level Access     Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 5:26pm | 
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   Please post your results after the autopsy    | |
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| theropod   Orange Level     Joined: 28 Sep 2017 Location: Arkansas USA Points: 217 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 6:00pm | 
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   When I started my B recently for the first time in years I installed a cone shaped metal screen inside the inlet on the radiator. I was worried about crud/mouse nesting material in the block. While there was no rats nesting there was crud, and I cleaned the mesh cone out and ran the engine again with the cone in place again, and cleaned it out again. The last time there was hardly anything in the diy filter. If nothing else that junk didn’t make it into the radiator.
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     Put the bunny back in the box! 1938 B, 1977 Yanmar YM2200 No private messages: use email: theropod AT yahoo DOT com | |
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| Ranse   Orange Level     Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Location: Tennessee Points: 782 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 6:21pm | 
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   I've never even heard of this problem before, nor did I know there was a different coolant foe diesels. I've always just used the green Prestone antifreeze as used in a car. My 7740 New Holland doesn't have sleeves (so I've been told), does it make a difference?
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| Lonn   Orange Level     Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29817 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 6:45am | 
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 Here's a link describing how cavitation erosion works. http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2015/03/cavitation-erosion-in-diesel-cylinders/ | |
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     -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -  Wink I am a Russian Bot | |
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| pirlbeck   Silver Level   Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Location: West Central IA Points: 233 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 8:03am | 
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   From the Baldwin farm filter guide book. Technically, this scouring process is known as cavitation erosion. While it can appear anywhere on the cylinder liner, most pitting occurs as a narrow vertical band, perpendicular to the axis of the crankshaft. A secondary band may be found on the opposite side of the liner. The air bubbles are primarily the result of vibration of the liner wall as the piston travels up and down in the cylinder bore. Therefore, any change in the design of the engine which increases the vibration of the liner (such as thinner cylinder walls, longer sleeves or poor mechanical fit) will increase the potential for liner perforation. To combat the effect of cavitation erosion, all heavy-duty engine manufacturers recommend the use of SCAs. The SCAs coat the liner walls with a hard oxide film that acts as a barrier between the liner wall and the collapsing air bubbles, but does not significantly impede heat transfer. While the SCAs cannot prevent the formation or collapse of the bubbles, the oxide film is thick enough to keep the bubbles away from the liner surface, thus effectively preventing pitting of the liners. | |
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| Gerald J.   Orange Level   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 9:21am | 
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   My understanding of cavitation is that it is not from piston motion, but from the abrupt bang of diesel combustion. E.g. a very rapid combustion chamber pressure rise. If it was from piston motion it would be a problem in gas engines, especially racing engines. Gerald J. | |
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| FREEDGUY   Orange Level Access     Joined: 15 Apr 2017 Location: South West Mich Points: 5396 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 6:52pm | 
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   I was under the impression that it had to do with the acidity of the coolant that "ate" away the sleeve??
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| Gerald J.   Orange Level   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 7:43pm | 
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   The damage from cavitation comes from the bang making a bubble on the outside of the sleeve and then that bubble collapsing so the sleeve is hit with coolant. Hit hard enough to remove a layer of steel atoms. Repeated each power stroke the cavitation eats all the way through the sleeve. It looks like corrosion but its not chemical corrosion. Gerald J. | |
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