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drobCA 
Orange Level
Joined: 20 Jun 2017
Location: Perris, CA
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 Topic: 8N pto lever
Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 1:43pm |
finally got the 8N resurrected and running good but now no hydraulics.
the service manual identifies this as the pro control lever... but says nothing about on/off positions.
both the PTO cover and this lever seem to be frozen solid, so I can't just move it and see what happens. all I need right now is the hydraulics. PTO use will come later and I'll tear into it and fix things. so... for now... can Creston or any of you other 8n owners puhleeeez let me know if I need to move this lever to use the hydraulics. and which direction? then I can move on to doing the final sweetening on my beloved B. so big thanks in advance.
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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Dave H
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Central IL
Points: 3507
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Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 4:28pm |
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drob, you gotts to have the pto engaged to run the hydraulic pump. Creston should chime in on what position you have the pto in. You could go (engine off of course) to the rear and twist on the pto shaft. If it turns you got it out of gear and the hydraulics will never work.
I got one of those rascals covered up in the barn. Let me know and I will go out and get the scoop tomorrow if necessary.
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 22898
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Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 4:48pm |
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frozen soild could mean it's RUSTED ! So be real careful trying to free it up just by banging on it !! I'd undo the 6 bolts and look inside, better safe than sorry.There's lots of service stuff available online to show you what's inside and how it works. I no longer have an 8N though there's one up the road I might look at...
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
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Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 6:04pm |
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IIRR, forward is pto and hyd, straight up is N, and where it is now is pto gear running off of rear (ground driven revolution). X2 on pulling the bolts, and looking under, to see what's goin on...
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
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Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 7:18pm |
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The 8N PTO never is independent of the transmission, it is an extension of the intermediate transmission shaft, doesn't have its own gears under any situation. The hydraulic pump is driven by the PTO shaft. When engaged, its always ground drive essentially and it is important to have an overrunning clutch on the PTO driven implement or if the implement has some spinning inertia like a mower pushing in the clutch pedal won't stop the tractor's motion because the PTO shaft is always coupled to the tractor final drive unless the PTO is disengaged and disengaging while the mower is spinning will chew up the coupling.
Gerald J.
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drobCA
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Joined: 20 Jun 2017
Location: Perris, CA
Points: 292
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Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 7:29pm |
thanks guys. I got the screw on PTO protector cone off with semi-gentle persuasion and out came some of the ugliest fluid I've ever seen. only a few cupfuls, but yugga - even had some small, soft black chunks in it that easily crushed between fingers. sludge-lets. could be seal fragments I guess. but at least I was able to confirm that the PTO is operating currently.
tonight/tomorrow morning I will trickle drain each reservoir to see how much water comes out - this thing sat for quite a while - then go ahead and drain the rest.
then with fresh fluid in there and maybe Rachel's quick trick pushing some pressure in there maaaaybe it'll start working. hope so. I am definitely getting tired of walking past my B to work on non-orange.
thanks again for quick responses - especially for off-color stuff.
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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drobCA
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Joined: 20 Jun 2017
Location: Perris, CA
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Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 7:44pm |
also - previous owner only used it to brush hog right next door - maybe twice a year toward the end of its use. and likely with the wheel set in back, just hanging from the chains in front instead of varying leading edge height. so who knows when/if he really ever used the hydraulics.
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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DanWi
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: wttn
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Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 8:19pm |
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He had to move the lever to turn the pto on and off.
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JohnCO
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Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 9:49pm |
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Maybe he never shut it off...
Is that fender BLUE, call the correct police, Dale, get a rope!
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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drobCA
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Joined: 20 Jun 2017
Location: Perris, CA
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Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 12:59am |
worse, John: the tractor is red, white & blue and white stars will be added to the blue hood. it will be backup for the Heritage High School Patriots occasional parades and a look-alike twin to the Ferguson TO20 we are resurrecting there. black & white cat is considered optional equipment. he's usually on the seat.
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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Dave H
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Central IL
Points: 3507
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Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 1:37pm |
drob, While I was out in the barn today I checked out the pto lever on my 50 8N. To the rear is engaged and forward is disengaged. And it looks like John gets the prize, cus it looks like the previous owner managed with the pto engaged all the time. i guess that is possible since he is still kicking. 
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drobCA
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Posted: 03 Dec 2017 at 1:52pm |
thanks, Dave! I appreciate your taking the time to do that.
looks like I have to pull the shaft and change the seal, 'cuz the screw-on protector cap is all that was keeping the fluid in. and I will want to use the PTO, so I can't just screw the cap back on and ignore the problem. while I'm at it I'll see what's up with the control lever being immobile.
uh.. is there ever an end to these "back from the dead" projects?  |
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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CrestonM
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 08 Dec 2017 at 6:39pm |
Replacing the seal is a super easy process. (I just found this thread.) I did mine back in 2013, and it was my first "big" repair on my own, so I was pretty nervous. However, other than getting the snap ring out, all went easy for the inexperienced mechanic I was. If I remember correctly, just drain the fluid in the rear compartment, pull the 4 bolts holding the assembly on the back of the tractor, and the shaft just pulls out. If you don't want to drain the fluid, you can park nose first in a ditch.
I can't recall the exact steps after that, but it's pretty straight forward, especially if you have the shop manual (15 year-old me did it). I haven't read that section of the book since 2013, but if I remember correctly, this will be one of the times you will be glad you have an 8N and not a 9N/2N.
Edited by CrestonM - 08 Dec 2017 at 7:05pm
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drobCA
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Posted: 08 Dec 2017 at 7:23pm |
thanks Creston - I do have the book and did read it and it does look pretty doable. and you're right - it's twice as much trouble with a 9n or 2n. fortunately all my fords are 8n's.
another forum member sent me pdf's of 3 different manuals - and finally one (the owners manual) did say forward is off, rear-ward is on for the pto lever. I'll see why it's so stiff on mine as part of my "pto shaft day".
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 08 Dec 2017 at 8:10pm |
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That little tractor is pretty sharp.
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ksbowman
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Joined: 19 Mar 2013
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Posted: 08 Dec 2017 at 9:25pm |
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I know it is not your exact problem, but when I had an NAA (Jubilee). It wouldn't shift in the PTO. I split it 3 times looking for the problem and everything looked fine. I then called a Ford shop and talked to a mechanic. He told me the PTO shaft only had to be bent .005 and it would shift correctly. He said replace the PTO shaft. I did and it shifted great after that. Visual inspection showed no bend but, evidently it was.
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CrestonM
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Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 08 Dec 2017 at 9:55pm |
My 8N PTO lever doesn't shift as easily as my B does, but it's still not too hard. And yes, you are correct. Forward is off and rear is on. I had to write it on my 8N when I taught my sister to use it to mow her horse pasture.
Then another thing, since you're going to be using this for the hydraulics....this confused me for a little while, but the little lever under your seat is your draft control. Works almost like Allis' traction booster, (but IMHO, a little better). "Up" is position control, "down" is draft control. Use draft control for plowing, but I use position control for everything else. Sure is handy. Also, if you have trouble with it, let me know. Many get wore out/out of adjustment, and is a big reason the N's get a bad name. (Luckily they are easy to repair/adjust) When they are adjusted right, they are amazing when plowing. Get in the furrow, drop your plow until it touches the ground, then push the lever down about an inch more (depending on your soil type) and drive. You won't have to touch a thing, except when you raise it at the end of the field. I like to set a stop on the quadrant to make it easier.
And...if you ever need a remote outlet, near that little lever is a plug that you remove with a flat head screwdriver. That's the test port for testing your hydraulic pressure. (Helps determine system "health") If you remove that port and plumb a line in going to a remote, then chain your lift arms down, you now have a "poor man's" remote. Not the best, but it will definitely work if you need a remote single action cylinder.
Edited by CrestonM - 08 Dec 2017 at 10:08pm
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drobCA
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Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 9:01am |
very cool! thanks, Creston. no wonder you love your 8N since you know it inside out.
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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drobCA
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Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 12:03pm |
gee... I can't imagine what made me think I might need to replace this sludge... oops I mean "experienced" hydraulic fluid.
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3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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CrestonM
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Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 1:35pm |
Yep, that's one of the cases where more "experience" isn't a good thing...Lol!
Once you get it all back together, here's something I do...once I drain the fluid, to help get sludge out of the system, I put the plugs back in and fill it up with 5 gallons of diesel. Then run the lift up and down a couple times. Some people will say yay/nay, but I believe it's a good way to help dissolve and break up the sludge. Then just drain it out. When I did that for the first time back in 2014, there were some chunks that came out after doing the diesel flush. You can also pull the cover on the right side of the hydraulic pump (round plate that holds your dipstick) once you drain the fluid and dig out sludge that doesn't get washed out from around the pump. Of course, you could drop the pump from under the tractor as well and get it even more clean, but that's getting pretty involved.
Glad to see your progress! The area around the PTO on your tractor is spotless...mine had 50+ years of dirt and crud build up all around it, so much that I couldn't even see the bolt heads!
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Gary Burnett
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Location: Virginia
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Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 2:11pm |
The good news is N Fords are easy to work on and parts for them are available a lot of places.The bad news you're always going to be working on a N Ford and you'll need a whole lot of those parts.
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