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littlemarv 
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
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 Topic: Water in the basement
Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 10:51pm |
The B sees a few hours of use a year. We use it when we can, on the bush hog, 2 row corn planter, and hauling firewood. Luckily, if it sits too long, we have a young man who is always willing to take it for a spin to keep things working. We pretty much change oil every spring. Two years ago, I thought the oil looked a little grey, and the radiator was low. I left the drain plug out, and pressure tested the cooling system. Found the radiator to leak. Replaced the radiator, pressure tested it again for a day or two, never saw any green come out the bottom of the oil pan. Popped the valve cover off and checked the frost plugs in the head, nothing there. So, I chalked up the grey color to condensation and left it at that. My brother went to change oil this spring, and plain green coolant came out first when he pulled the plug. He didn't want to run it like that, so it has been sitting there all summer. Time to dive into this little problem. We dumped in fresh oil to get it on the trailer and brought it down to my house today, so I can work on it. I believe this is the second time this tractor has left the family farm. My plan is to drop the oil pan, pressure test it, and see where the coolant is coming from. Its probably either liner O-rings or headgasket. I see no reason to overhaul the entire engine, it starts great, doesn't smoke, pulls good, and uses no oil. Stay tuned...
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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shameless dude
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Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 13607
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Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 1:52am |
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don't gits Les to help you! lol
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Ted J
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Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: La Crosse, WI
Points: 18923
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Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 7:15am |
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With help like that, you'll have her back on the farmstead in no time!!
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Ted in NE-OH
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Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Austinburg OH
Points: 1703
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Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 1:28pm |
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The easy first thing to do is remove the valve cover and chack out the freeze plugs in the top of the head. Easy to fix, there are 3 of them
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CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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littlemarv
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 1829
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Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 10:25pm |
I checked the frost plugs last year, but that's not to say they aren't leaking now... Step 1= Bath Step 2= Find a suitable place to work, nestled cozy in the garage. Mama's van can even go inside..... for now. Popped the hood and valve cover off, and cleaned the top of the head. Topped off the coolant, took almost a gallon. Put a little pressure on it. I don't see anything up on top of the head. Popped the oil pan off. Found a nifty little screen in the oil pickup, so I thought I would inspect that while I'm in there. Great googily moogily! Cleaned off the underside of the engine. #3 rod bolts do not have cotter pins like the other three cylinders do. Wonder why that is. Took the spark plugs out as well, not that coolant is leaking into the cylinders that way. You'd sure think it would overheat or push coolant out that way, though. Checked everything after about an hour, nothing found. I will leave pressure on it overnight. Maybe I have to take the pressure OFF for it to leak. Its gotta be coming from somewheres.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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john(MI)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: SE MI
Points: 9262
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Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 11:17pm |
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Head Gasket?
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Don(MO)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bates City MO.
Points: 6862
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Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 9:29am |
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Change the water out with 200* hot water and re-pressure it the leak might show up.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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littlemarv
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 11:40am |
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Now THAT is a good idea that I had never thought of. On trucks we just plug in the block heater, sometimes that will make them show. Thanks Don.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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littlemarv
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 10:39pm |
When I got home from work today, there was a small puddle of coolant on the floor under the engine. Good deal. You can't really see to good in the picture, but there is a green drip hanging from the #3 piston. I could see a green trail coming down from between the block and liner, and running down and hanging off the edge of the piston skirt. As they used to frequently say in France, "OFF WITH ITS HEAD!" Drained the coolant, removed the thermostat housing, unbolted the carb, but that can stay there, just slid a paper towel in there to keep crud from falling in. Removed the overhead, found the B has one of those "two piece" rocker shafts. No coolant on top of any pistons. Not too much carbon buildup either. Unhooked the rod caps, crank looks good, bearings look good. I will have to get some plastigage and shim them when I go back together. The crank is stained, but you can't feel anything with your fingernail. I originally thought I would just pop the cylinder packs out as an assembly, and replace the O-rings, without disturbing the pistons. Tried putting a block of wood under the liner and ever so gently whacking it with a large hammer. Good way to turn a block of wood into splinters, but that's about it. Put a jack under the block of wood, and lifted the front tires off the ground. Not budging. Got creative to make a puller to pull from the top while the jack pushes from the bottom. It is a rubber plug that you tighten down so it expands and fills the bore, then you pull on it. You cant see them in the picture, but I have two sockets holding up the angle iron so it makes a bridge to pull with. There's only about a 1/4" gap between the angle and the rubber, but all I need is to see the liner move at all and I'm home free. Not budging. I will leave it like this overnight and we will see if pressure and time have anything to do with it. Otherwise, I have a few options on how to complete the repair without a complete overhaul. The mechanic always wins......
Edited by littlemarv - 11 Oct 2017 at 10:40pm
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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HoughMade
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Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Points: 706
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Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 12:08pm |
You don't need to buy a tool, but this will show you the concept. From the amount of disassembly you have already done, popping one piston out isn't a big deal.
Edited by HoughMade - 12 Oct 2017 at 12:10pm
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1951 B
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Stan IL&TN
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Elvis Land
Points: 6730
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Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 12:40pm |
This is a video I made of my daughter pulling a sleeve from the WD45 engine.  I used a big piece of oak for the bottom puller with a hole drilled in the middle for the all thread to go through.
Edited by Stan IL&TN - 12 Oct 2017 at 12:43pm
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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littlemarv
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 1829
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Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 8:13pm |
Fabricated a puller. Pretty amazing what you can come up with out of the steel dumpster. This is a rough prototype, but it works quite well. I will have to make a few improvements but for today, it got the job done. The bottom plate is just a smidge wider than the liner, you just need to be careful to keep it away from the cam lobes. I am going to get the bottom plate machined so it just fits in the liner, and fits through the block so you can lift the liner as far as necessary. I am also going to cut a piece of pipe to length to replace all my redneck wood blocks. Hey, you make do with what you have on hand. They come out pretty easy, when you have the proper tool. Pa said they overhauled the engine in 1965 or so. Ready for 50 years of crud? #4 came out the hardest, because all the crud was packed around the back of it. You take all the rust out, it will probably hold an extra quart of coolant! You have to keep in mind, the coolant way back when probably didn't have much or any corrosion inhibitors. All that rust really looks terrible, but it really cleans up easy. I did a preliminary cleaning on the block. My main concern was the lower webs between the liners being cracked, but they are in very good shape. It looks like a crack on the top there between one and two, but I don't think it is. The last time I took a block to the engine shop, they said cracks up top are of no concern. So there, I got it apart to the point where I can order parts, now that I know the block is O.K. Need to clean the liners and clean the block and chase all the threaded holes and we should be set to begin reassembly. I contemplated on the best way to repair this. We don't use this tractor a whole lot, and it runs fine. The cylinders look real good. So I marked the liners so they go back in the same spot, and as long as I just compress the rings and plunk the pistons back in, it should be fine. But, now would be the time to overhaul it. Parts for an overhaul would be around $500. That's a lot for a tractor we don't use much. But, what if ten years from now, it needs an overhaul, and the kit is $1000, if one is even available? Sometimes I WAYYYYYYYYY overthink things. I need to fix the coolant leak and not fix what ain't broke. So, I think I will order up a set of liner O-rings, a complete gasket set, and a set of rod shims. And see if I can scrounge up a replacement rocker shaft.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Stan IL&TN
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Elvis Land
Points: 6730
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Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 7:29am |
Looking good! But I just can't believe you will give up the coveted two piece rocker shaft option.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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HoughMade
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Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Points: 706
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Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:11am |
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Lookin' good! You work fast.
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1951 B
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DonDittmar
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Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2505
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Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 6:47pm |
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Those look like pieces of bearing shim in the oil pickup screen. Probably why #3 doesn't have any cotter keys on the rod nuts........I'd say someone has been in there before
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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littlemarv
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 1829
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Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 6:53pm |
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Well, we have owned it since new. Pa says they overhauled it in 65, and I vaguely remember him putting a headgasket in it in the early 80's. That was the most mechanically inclined thing I've ever seen Pa do. It left the farm once to get the right final and hub replaced, and again the other day when I brought it down here. I was planning on shimming the rods anyways. Who knows why there were no pins in #3.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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littlemarv
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 1:10pm |
Got the gasket set, liner 0-rings, and shim kit. Scraped the counterbores with a razor blade, chased all the head bolt holes with a tap, cleaned up the liners inside and out, I marked them so they go back in the same spot. Dropped the liners in with no O-rings so I can measure protrusion. Ran into a snag on #4, which is the one that came out the hardest, due to extreme rust buildup around the liner. It won't go down. Pulled out the #3 liner and tried #4 in that hole, it won't go. So the problem is in the liner, not the hole. This lava lookin thing is called a stripping disk for body work, but it does wonders on cleaning engine blocks as well. Cleaned the bottom area of the liner and it dropped right in. Clamped the liners down as best I could, came out right at 0.004". So, pulled them out, lubed up the chamfer and the lower bores, lubed up the O-rings, and hopefully set the liners home for another 50 years. Now, for a quick check, I filled up the block with coolant. Not as good as a pressure test, but if something went horribly wrong and you cut some O-rings, it will show up before you go any further. No, I'm not using extended life, that's just a jug I had handy. I wonder if it would be better in these old tractors though? Anyways, left it sit overnight and don't see any green underneath, so back together we go. Cleaned the pistons as good as I could, and immersed them in oil. You can't get much better lubrication than that. The shims measure 0.005", and there are 16 in a pack. I measured some of the old shims, they were about 0.008" give or take. Lets put 0.005" in and see where we end up. Put some green plastigage in the bearing caps, and torqued them down. Remove the caps again, and they came out about 0.0015" to 0.002" across the board. On this engine, with used bearings, and used crank, I think that's plenty good. I was pretty surprised to get it on the first try, but hey, I'd rather be lucky than good. I have side play on the rods, and the crank turns nice. Lubed up the bearings with lubriplate, and torqued the rod bolts to 35 foot pounds and installed the cotter pins. Reinstalled the oil pickup screen, put a dab of lube on each cam lobe. Reinstalled the oil pan (not easy in chassis) and called the bottom half done.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
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Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 6:52pm |
Those pics should be archived, on the knowledge section of the board... Excellent how to! 
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ac45dave
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Joined: 23 May 2015
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Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 9:29pm |
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whats the latest on the engine repair on this unit??
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54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
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littlemarv
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 10:17pm |
Funny you should ask, I just came in from working on it. I modified my 201 engine lifting bracket, so now it fits the B. Doesn't really have anything to do with this repair, but now is the time to make sure it fits. Matt sent me an entire rocker shaft. Checked it over, looks pretty good. I figure now is the time to change the corks in the ends of the rocker shaft. So I pulled the old ones out, they are straight 5/8" corks. Ran down to the local hardware store, they only have tapered corks. Grabbed four 5/8" corks and four 11/16" corks. Good thing I did, as the 5/8" ones are too small. So I cut the bigger ones in half and put two in each end. Should be good. And then my phone went dead. So, you'll just have to trust me. Put the rockers on, torqued them down to 25 ft lbs, set the valves to 0.012" cold, since they are supposed to be 0.010" hot. Valve cover on, coolant and oil in, open the petcock, twirl the crank a few times since I forgot to put the battery charger on, and she purrs like a kitten. The engine really sounds different. When I took it apart, some of the valves felt like they had about 1/4" to 3/8" clearance. I know the valves haven't been set for at least 30 years, so I guess it was due. So, put the hood back on, and back home she goes, where she belongs. Find some moderate work to do to warm her up, check the freeze protection of the coolant, and tuck her back in the shed for the winter. Thanks for looking.
Edited by littlemarv - 26 Oct 2017 at 10:21pm
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 2:51am |
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Very good documentation on the coolant leak problem. Always enjoy your threads. Very informative!
Regards,
Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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LeonR2013
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Joined: 01 Jan 2013
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Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 11:02am |
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Did you check the cam lobes? Were the lifters cupped quite a bit? From the pic I couldn't tell real well. Nice clean job. That's what I always like.
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Allis dave
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Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 1:09pm |
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Good going. Always fun to read your posts. I guess we'll trust you, even if your phone did die.
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Ted J
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Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: La Crosse, WI
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Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 7:17pm |
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GREAT Job!! Yep, this belongs in the archives.
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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littlemarv
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 9:25pm |
The cam lobes are fine. I didn't lift up the lifters and check them. I do engine work and drive a heavy wrecker for my full time job. We don't get a whole lot of wrecker business because we are not on an interstate. SO, because I love to operate a wrecker, and I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, and I can never make enough money, I now have a part time job running car wrecker nights and weekends. Asked the boss if I could borrow the flatbed to haul the tractor back up to the farm. I was kind of surprised when he said sure, just pay for the fuel you use. Sweet. Something for the kids and I to do today. Of course, the fight was on. I listened to it for a little while, then laid down the law. Courtney loads it and sits by the window on the way up, Carter unloads and sits by the window on the way back. Agree or you don't go. Agree? Everyone agreed. Now that we got that out of the way, Hooked up the brush hog and mowed some corn stalks for dad, it makes it way easier to lay out the snowfence if you don't have to fight the stubble. Then mowed some weeds and marsh grass around the fields to make it work a little, got it nice and warm to stir up the coolant, runs good, no leaks. Man I can't believe how quiet that engine is now. Anyways, junior can reach the pedals, so its time for some driving lessons. We went out in the field and learned up on the controls, shift pattern, and the like. We drove in first gear, shifted into second, backed up and turned around, and most importantly, we reviewed the correct terminology to bring out when you choke it off. So here is the view when you are riding on the drawbar while the fourth generation drives the tractor that great grandpa Carl bought new, on the farm established by great great grandpa Bruno! (Them some good German names, or what?) I've been watching this handy little gauge while I was working on the engine, not only does it indicate the engine water temperature, but its also a good indication of when you should stop working on tractors in unheated garages. Tucked it away in the shed for the winter. So there, another project done. I guess the final check will be to crack the drain plug in the spring, but I'm sure it will be fine. Which begs the question, What the sam hell am I going to do now? Hopefully, its a bad winter so I can make some extra scratch for funding next years projects! Thanks for looking.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 5:10am |
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Great pictures of the kids, B loades and working. Sure gald the kids are learninf how to operate the B! They are a great little tractor. And handy as a pocket in a shirt. I need to find one for my son! He fell in love with the one we had on the farm when he was growing up! That was 30 years ago. Or maybe he will want the wide front WD that I restored someday?
As far as projects don't worry, there is one right around the corner ready to dump in your lap, You just don't know it yet. Always enjoy your threads! Very good information and documentation.
That is a nice looking WD you have too!
Regards,
Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 6:29am |
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well I can really appreciate the work you put into it !!!
Now, smartazz question..
Did you put ANTIFREEZE in the tractor ????
I know of one guy with a drag bike( water only on strip...) forgot last fall..he wasn't happy when he pulled it outta storage...
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Ted J
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Location: La Crosse, WI
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Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 12:31pm |
Well,,,,,,,,,,,, I've got; a C that needs the rear torn apart and new bearings in the left side for sure. a WD45 that is a parts tractor that just needs to be taken down. a WD45 with a Glearer E motor in it that needs an overhaul. It smokes. a D-17 that has a stuck PD that needs looked into. You just drive that flat bed down here (I'll pay for the gas) and I'll let you choose which one you want to start on. I think that'll keep you busy for the winter months.  
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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littlemarv
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Posted: 21 Nov 2017 at 9:07pm |
I gave a machinist friend some scrap metal and asked him to turn the pieces to fit a liner for a B, and a liner for a WD. Had it all planned out for him. Of course, he comes back with something totally different, I kind of expected that. So, this one fits a B liner And then he made an adapter ring to fit the WD liner. Amazing. Allis mechanics probably didn't have tooling this nice when the engines were new! So there, I now have a nice liner puller, and I can always get more adapters made if I tackle another engine.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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