444 Baler Knives/Shims ???

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http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/Viewer/book.aspx?book=agco/79001525 

Looking at the parts book page for the 444 baler ram/plunger (page 84 of the link), I am wondering if the stationary knife was meant to have shims under it from the factory.  I noticed that the ram knife shims (item #6, two part numbers listed) have no quantity listed and say use as required in the description.  The stationary knife shims (item #11, three part numbers listed) however does list a quantity for two part numbers with the third part number receiving no quantity and again being told to use as required.

I am slowly re-assembling the baler and when I bolted up the stationary knife with no shims it doesn't seem to clear the vertical leg of the right-bottom track angle which would make setting the ram knife clearance quite hard.  As a side note when I took it apart there was only a partial shim at the bottom of the stationary knife which might have been put there to accommodate the rotated ram/plunger which was caused by a disintegrated roller.

My questions are as follows:
Does two of the stationary knife shims item #11 having specific quantities listed mean they should have been there from the factory?
If yes, that means I need to install one wedge shim, I assume the thick side (left long side-to-right long side) should be installed under the leading edge of the stationary knife so the clearance opens up as the ram knife travels rearward to the trailing edge of the stationary knife?
If no, do I just install the shims as needed for the stationary knife to protrude past the track angle and/or only use a wedge shim to roll the knife if the trailing edge is intruding?
Should the stationary knife be parallel to the ram knife (leading edge to trailing edge)? 
In general I would love to talk to someone who has set these 40+ plus year old balers up as sometimes written questions aren't always conveyed or understood as well as a two way conversation.  If anyone is out there your help would be appreciated!

Mike

Edited by Michael (WI) - 27 Sep 2017 at 10:59pm

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Michael (WI) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Larrabee, WI Points: 815	Post Options Post Reply Quote Michael (WI) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 444 Baler Knives/Shims ??? Posted: 27 Sep 2017 at 10:56pm
	http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/Viewer/book.aspx?book=agco/79001525 Looking at the parts book page for the 444 baler ram/plunger (page 84 of the link), I am wondering if the stationary knife was meant to have shims under it from the factory. I noticed that the ram knife shims (item #6, two part numbers listed) have no quantity listed and say use as required in the description. The stationary knife shims (item #11, three part numbers listed) however does list a quantity for two part numbers with the third part number receiving no quantity and again being told to use as required. I am slowly re-assembling the baler and when I bolted up the stationary knife with no shims it doesn't seem to clear the vertical leg of the right-bottom track angle which would make setting the ram knife clearance quite hard. As a side note when I took it apart there was only a partial shim at the bottom of the stationary knife which might have been put there to accommodate the rotated ram/plunger which was caused by a disintegrated roller. My questions are as follows: Does two of the stationary knife shims item #11 having specific quantities listed mean they should have been there from the factory? If yes, that means I need to install one wedge shim, I assume the thick side (left long side-to-right long side) should be installed under the leading edge of the stationary knife so the clearance opens up as the ram knife travels rearward to the trailing edge of the stationary knife? If no, do I just install the shims as needed for the stationary knife to protrude past the track angle and/or only use a wedge shim to roll the knife if the trailing edge is intruding? Should the stationary knife be parallel to the ram knife (leading edge to trailing edge)? In general I would love to talk to someone who has set these 40+ plus year old balers up as sometimes written questions aren't always conveyed or understood as well as a two way conversation. If anyone is out there your help would be appreciated! Mike Edited by Michael (WI) - 27 Sep 2017 at 10:59pm

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orangereborn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NW WI Points: 1450	Post Options Post Reply Quote orangereborn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Sep 2017 at 12:54am
	Mike...Text me in the AM. I will be on the road but will respond as to when we can connect....Dale 715-781-2055

Meanolallis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 04 Sep 2013 Points: 132	Post Options Post Reply Quote Meanolallis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 6:46pm
	Do you have a service manual? Perhaps some of this would be covered there...?

Orange4ever Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 01 Sep 2014 Location: Farmington, MO Points: 390	Post Options Post Reply Quote Orange4ever Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 8:49pm
	Check your bale chamber . check your plunger to make sure it is running true and that all bearings are good . it sounds to me like your plunger is running on a angle to your bale chamber make sure all running services are good without rust underneath . make sure surfaces are flat and true your knives should require the same amount of Shims top and bottom there's two angle iron plates that are adjustable 3/8 bolts with locking nuts. Good set up on knives makes a pretty bale and requires less horsepower to run the Baler
	If you want a man to be a successful farmer, give him a Allis Chalmers tractor. If you want him to be a successful mechanic, give him a John Deere