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more 645 questions |
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 9:12pm |
I went and looked at another 645 fiat allis payloader yesterday that is for sale, and it got me confused. Mine is supposedly a Fiat Allis, not allis chalmers, but there are many differences between my 645 and the one I looked at yesterday. First off, my serial number is 19xxN. I really don't beleive that the N should be there, however there is a decal that says 645 N also. But it may be a generic stick on that someone stuck on there. My serial number is stamped into the frame under the cab on the left side. The serial number on the one yesterday was up in the cab, and was TL 17xx. Smaller number than mine.
Another thing, the one yesterday has a smaller cab than mine. Mine is wider, and extends rearward such that the hydraulic oil tank filler is inside the cab. One yesterday, hydraulic filler is outside behind the cab, because the cab is shorter hydraulic filler is actually in the same place on both, but the cab size difference puts mine inside the cab, other one outside the cab. The loader arms seemed lighter on the one I looked at yesterday also, and configured way differently. On mine, my loader lift cylinders are mounted differently. Barrel end of my cylinders are only about a foot off the ground, and the rod end is very close to the loader arm pivot pins. One yesterday; barrel was about 2 feet off the ground, and rod was farther ahead. Basically, my cylinders are more vertical, yesterday's, more horizontal. I like the extra ground clearance on the one I looked at yesterday. Another difference is that my shifter is on the left side of the steering column. One yesterday was on left side of the seat. Both have air brakes but mine has disc brakes on all four corners, whereas the one yesterday had four wheel drum brakes which are presently not working. On the front of my transmission, I have only one pump, ,which is the main pump for loader function. Yesterday's 645 has 2 pumps on the front of the transmission. One being loader function, but looks way different than mine and the other pump, according to the seller is a transmission charge pump. He said tranny was weak when he got it, and he put that pump on it new, and it took care of the problem. Final drive planeteries and wheel rims appear to be different between mine and this one also. My whole reason for even looking at this one, was the thought of making one good one out of two was what I was thinking. But it appears that there are too many things different. My main question, is which one would be the newer of the two. One yesterday I thought would have been newer, but some things point otherwise. Serial number for one, being mine is a bigger number. Does anyone here know off hand when and what changes all went on during the years of 645 production. .? Thanks, Darrel |
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Eric B
Orange Level Joined: 09 Feb 2012 Location: British Columbi Points: 922 |
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Yours is definitely the newer one. The early ones had the shifter beside the seat and they had drum brakes. I don't know what year they moved the shifter up to the column and when disc brakes were introduced. Have you checked out the serial numbers in a book? I could check the #'s in my book as to production year, if you don't like putting the complete numbers on here you could send me a pm.
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8163 |
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my 78 545 has hyd pump mounted/stacked on trans pump on rt side.Left accessory drive has steering pump mounted.Those drum brakes are air over hyd.I had to replace both master cyls and both rear axle wheel cyls and reline shoes.fronts must be wore out too as adjustment is gone but cyls aren't leaking yet.More lining and wheel cyls on shelf,waiting...
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HudCo
Orange Level Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3489 |
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witch one is Italian made ?
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Eric B
Orange Level Joined: 09 Feb 2012 Location: British Columbi Points: 922 |
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I don't know if any models having "Allis-Chalmers" as the decal on the machine were made in Italy but once they became "Fiat-Allis" the Italians had the upper hand on production. My 1984 FR12 was made in Italy but was the splitting image of a 545.
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41484 |
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Weren't some of those also made in the US under CDS and Minnpar along with changing over to Ingersoll Rand when they bought that division along with Fork Truck ?
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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Darrel, Darrel!! Haven't I learned you anything yet, Pictures,Pictures!! It looks like the guys have used a lot of valuable posting time and you wrote a book to start it (does raise a lot of questions, so I'm curious) So I know that you have pictures (or the kids do) of this loader on your cell phone. No one, I MEAN NO ONE goes and looks and a piece of equipment now days without taking cell phone picture. I wasn't going to bring it up but with your "Iron Disease" affliction I'd be surprised if you don't have "selfie" with it So send me one of those pictures, to my phone and we'll get it posted up and solve this problem, I'd like to know what it is, besides this is cutting into restoration time geeez!
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JohnCO
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Niwot Colo Points: 8992 |
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Better listen to Mel, Darrel, I think he is secretly sending water to Shameless for his machine!
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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Ok, I know how to diagnose "IRON DISEASE' and was able to shame Darrel into these photos, should solve the problems.
I'm going to give it early TL645. The first 645s were designated TL. The transmission control was on the left side of the seat, later migrated to the steering column. They also were sold without factory cabs. They weren't required by OSHA yet so there were quite a few different types of open cabs and enclosed cabs out there. Early TL645s / 645 had different size planetarys in the front and rear. You can tell by the size of course. The bigger one was in the front, more weight, more abuse etc. Some time later 645Bs went to the bigger size in the front and rear. 545s,645s 745s all did this. TL645 brakes were air over hydraulic too. They were always kind of temperamental. This is an ALLIS CHALMERS TL645, the FIAT ALLIS decal is just words the sooner you buy this and get those FIAT decals of the happier this loader will be (IRON DISEASE THING) tires are probably 20.5x25 The serial number would give the year. I think they were introduced in 1965 or 66. We sold one we had in 1986 and now have permission to go get it back, it doesn't run, but were going to go get it. This looks like a very,very nice specimen, OK anything else? (maybe I shouldn't let you guys go unsupervised for this long a spell) |
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shameless (ne)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Jul 2016 Location: nebraska Points: 7463 |
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good job Mel! **clapping hands** just seems like we can't learn that Darrell nuthin anymore! LOL
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shameless (ne)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Jul 2016 Location: nebraska Points: 7463 |
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oh...and Mel....gits him to send you pics of all the insides of his buildings so we can see why all the important stuff has to sits outside!
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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Thanks so much Mel! So you are thinking that this one should actually be sporting Allis Chalmers decals..? I will get you some pictures of my 645 today, and you can assess it. Thanks to Shameless, I may have to brush fresh snow off of it first. And, no, you should NOT leave us un-supervised for even a day. In fact, Shameless may have to set up a "roll call" thread over here too. It's always good to read your posts, Mel.
And, NO Shameless. I am not going to post pictures of the inside of my building, unless you post a picture of yourself first. Also, there is something green in that one building, and I don't want you to have to get a rope for me. Darrel |
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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Yes definitely AC, nothing FIAT about it (unless someone changed the engine to IVECO) Can't see the engine very well, but I bet it's a 3500. After several years of merger some dealers were promoting the IVECO engines as replacements for worn out 3500s. The IVECOS were in the FIAT-ALLIS FR12s. I bet it's a 3500 AC. Put the serial number up, maybe we can tell you what day they made it.
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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Ok, Darrel and I have been visiting today, we've decided that he has a FRANKENSTEIN 645.The boom on his 645 is different than any other I have seen
It appears to be longer with a little whoopty do in it and the lift cylinder seems to be mounted differently also. All the boom fabricating is different from a normal 645. So we're appealing to you guys to tell us where the hell this came from |
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shameless (ne)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Jul 2016 Location: nebraska Points: 7463 |
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there's a 645-B on an up coming auction that has sum similarities to Darrells machine. lots of pics. "www.delpeterson.com" it's the 2-day auction on Feb 21-22.
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Lee Bradley
Bronze Level Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Location: Kingston, WA Points: 116 |
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Thought the factory built a high lift option. This maybe one of those.
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Eric B
Orange Level Joined: 09 Feb 2012 Location: British Columbi Points: 922 |
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Very interesting...never seen that style boom on any of them before. I wonder if a prototype machine snuck out of the factory and made its way to Darrel...??
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Amos
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Points: 1312 |
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Well,,,after looking at the pictures above I could not figure out what you guys are talking about the boom being different and the lift cylinders different from a 645, as they are identical to mine. I am pretty sure my model is a 645B. Could the B mean it is different? I have an air over hydraulic brake system I can't figure why some one would build such a system...go one way or the other sheesh!
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Eric B
Orange Level Joined: 09 Feb 2012 Location: British Columbi Points: 922 |
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The essential difference is where the lift cylinders push on the boom. On Darrel's the pin boss connecting the ram to the boom is very high up making for a much shorter measurement between that point and the upper boom pin in the frame of the machine. If you google search pictures of these loaders you will soon see the difference in design. On the brake system I quite agree with you. These systems worked well for the first few years no doubt. Personally I would go for a full air brake system like on big trucks.
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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I studied some pictures of a 645 for sale on auction time last night. Everything about it looked very much like mine, except for the loader boom. I would guess that mine is something like a high lift option or something like that. Darrel
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shameless (ne)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Jul 2016 Location: nebraska Points: 7463 |
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was it cleaner than yers?
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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that's not pertinent to the topic at hand. But if you are worried about it go look at it on auction time, then look at the pictures of mine and compare. On auction time, it says 545 in the heading, but it's actually a 645. Darrel |
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orangeman
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 1745 |
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With all these pictures of 645's its beginning to look like the 645 Club.
Enjoy seeing the Industrial AC side.... Orangeman
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shameless (ne)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Jul 2016 Location: nebraska Points: 7463 |
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whew....somebody is cranky this morn'in! o-k....i'll take that back!
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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I thoughts you was being a wise guy, and picking on my payloader because it's not too clean. Maybe by "cleaner," you just meant "in nicer shape. ..? Sorry, I'll try to do better in the future. In my defense, I hadn't had my morning caffeine yet when I posted that. Lol. Darrel
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Mike Kroupa
Orange Level Joined: 02 Oct 2009 Location: pierce, ne Points: 335 |
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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I like the construction/industrial side of allis chalmers, also. A 645 when not broke down like mine presently is, is awesome. Darrel |
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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Thanks for posting that picture, Mike. That looks like a really good machine. Darrel
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shameless (ne)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Jul 2016 Location: nebraska Points: 7463 |
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any machine running and working is a good one (poke,poke,poke) you ain't gots yours fixed yet??? WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR??? WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING???? it's been almost a month!!! do we need to send Mel up there with a SHARP stick, or me with a cattle prod??? if this "back" thing works....look the F out, i'll be able to catch up on a few things I've put on the back burner!
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8623 |
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You'll be able to catch up on a few things, like with your ole loving wife. ....? Darrel
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