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HD11B GRAPPLE FACELIFT/RESTORATION |
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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Posted: 25 May 2016 at 3:06pm |
OK, We're going to give this Grapple tractor some different components that are in better shape. A good friend would like to use it on a logging job that is suited for grapple tractor work. We're going to make some needed repairs and put it on his payroll. His staff will be operating it after some training.
The process starts with the normal firehose wash job. So it gets close to the shop where we will take the blade off, find the master track pins take of pads and get the track pins ready to come out. The pins,bushings and rails do not have enough life in them for another logging job. The operators compartment is pretty rough and will need attention too. This might make some one mad but this will be the "DONOR TRACTOR" the swing frames and rollers,idlers will be used. The tracks will not be used. Somewhere in the yard is a set of tracks with bushings and pins turned with 20'' grousers. (have to find them) The engine from this tractor will be used in another 11B. This 11B is also a direct drive farm tractor. Hoping to work my way to it in the next couple of days and have it out to tear into for the 3 day weekend. This won't be a showpiece restoration like a couple of the other ones. This is for work. Ok, I'll post as I go, hope to have lots of stuff from 2 tractors scattered all over by Monday. |
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Ferdinand
Orange Level Joined: 31 Mar 2016 Location: North Carolina Points: 1951 |
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Keep it coming, AC. I really like to see how you handle the work on these big machines.
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jorstad brothers
Orange Level Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Location: tioga nd Points: 473 |
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i would love to find a ag cat like that up here.
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remember plunder than burn
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Lazyts
Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 627 |
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I've been looking for one like that too- would be great for draw bar work. Almost impossible to find a direct drive 11-B with dozer setup. An A-C man needs a donor or two these days- I have "donor envy".
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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So you take the blade of.You don't have to have a big forklift either. Normally we would just drive out in the yard and put some blocks under the push beams and back out. We will also be changing from an angle blade to a straight blade.
Identify the master track pins and move to where it's easy to get to. Usually take of 2 pads,sometimes the pad bolts cooperate, sometimes they don't. Get the pin to move so you know it will come out. We thought we would put it on the cement this time because we are going to roll around under it to do other service work. So the track pin comes up at the sprocket where it's still easy to get to. This one comes out easier than it should. try these video links http://vid966.photobucket.com/albums/ae147/doowder1/1%20GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT/GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT%20TRACK%20PIN_zpsgyc0toz5.mp4 http://vid966.photobucket.com/albums/ae147/doowder1/1%20GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT/GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT%20PUSH_zpsleb40vci.mp4 http://vid966.photobucket.com/albums/ae147/doowder1/1%20GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT/GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT%20TRACK%20PULL_zpshchip7cx.mp4 So the other side was not as cooperative. It was not going to come out very easy. We probably won't be using these rails again,so I just cut the links, leaving the master pin alone, it sure expedites the process. We'll cut the master pin out later for future use. So this is where we are know. Swing frames are next. |
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Lazyts
Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 627 |
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That's an interesting setup where a bottom roller was used for a carrier...
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Mactractor
Orange Level Access Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652 |
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A number of 11`s here on logging work were changed to that setup Trev. My EP had it when I got it. An engineer working on logging gear back in the day told me he changed many of them. Loggers very hard on tractors he said. I nodded in agreeance
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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Trev, Yes you're right about the carrier roller. The previous owner had done that. Our experience has always shown that any of these 11s that had just 1 carrier roller usually ended up getting bent. We've always used 2 rollers. The previous owner logged a lot in the snow and I think with all the snow build up I think that was his attempt to solve his problem. The other side had a single CAT type roller. (I think it's CAT)
So we need the track guards off to put on the DONOR tractor swing frames. These guards have always been hard to find so we'll need to use these again. We've actually rebuilt some of these in the past. These have a piece of 3/4'' flatbar between the swing frame and the guard, I guess it was also to compensate for the snow build up. It's quite a job, but the 3/4'' air gun got most of the bolts out and the 1'' gun got the rest. At this time don't plan on doing any thing else to the guards. Will probably need some new bolts though We also need the blade trunions. The swing frames on the farm tractors come with the nut blocks inserted in the swing frame,there plugged off with cork,hope that works out. Ok, so getting back to the logger abuse. Macs right these logging tractors,especially with grapples were very,very abused. They were designed for use on pretty flat ground. But noooo! they ended up going where ever the operator could get with the tractor. (yes we did it to) Not to make any of are CAT friends mad, but one of these grapples on the back of a D6C would totally destroy it. The 11s held up a lot better. So the reason we're switching out these swing frames is because they are both broke up and welded on. you can see where they have been fish plated. Both swing frames on both sides. They did a good job and everything seems to be straight, but I don't want to go to the brush to weld on them. Ok, so we got the DONOR tractor going. It's been sitting for several years. I forgot that we took the starter off.(pay no attention to Cat D5) The rails on this tractor are almost new and they sat long enough that they got sticky I guess. So we took it around the yard to work the kinks out. http://vid966.photobucket.com/albums/ae147/doowder1/1%20GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT/Donor%20tractor11%20short_zpstmhdpy6t.mp4 Because these are almost new rails we sacrifice the master pin. We just blow out the center of the pin with the torch (both ends) and they usually come right out. Some times the air gun will even do it. http://vid966.photobucket.com/albums/ae147/doowder1/1%20GRAPPLE%20FACELIFT/AIR%20HAMMER%20T4ACK%20PIN_zpsrrcrwsgo.mp4 We'll get the tracks out of the way. So this is what it looks like this morning. We'll make an assault on the swing frames and get them off and upside down for guard installation. Ok, so the straight blade off this 11 goes on the grapple tractor. The engine out of the orange DONOR tractor goes in this 11. (It has either broken rings or valve guides or some issue). David says if I could get that blade off soon,he could start painting while we're still working on the grapple. This blade is in real good condition and needs to go logging again. Ok, You still with me ? LOL |
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Ferdinand
Orange Level Joined: 31 Mar 2016 Location: North Carolina Points: 1951 |
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Still following along! Nice playground you have there.
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jorstad brothers
Orange Level Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Location: tioga nd Points: 473 |
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still here even though i shed tears for the ag cat.
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remember plunder than burn
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Gargoyle
Silver Level Joined: 29 Aug 2013 Location: Missouri Points: 186 |
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I love it that Mel saves these old machines..
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Steve allis dozer
Silver Level Access Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Location: Australia Points: 232 |
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Great job AC Mel , i would sure like to buy that ROPS system off that ag tractor from you but i don't know how i would get it over here
Regards steve
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Lazyts
Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 627 |
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I think the D5 carrier roller has a beefier shaft, which is probably why they used it- yes, I've seen lots of bent carrier rollers on HD11s- they weren't exactly over engineered.
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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Ok, here's our forward progress. The swing frames from the DONOR tractor were removed and cleaned. The bolts for the guards were removed, they are to short to reuse.
We have some really, really special anti seize lubricant compound to put on the bolts. JET LUBE SS-30 copper high temperature. (you know the kind of stuff you get when you go to an industrial type auction, buy the $50.00 shelf that you want only to find out you have to take the contents too. So when you get it home and dig through the contents you find things like 30 bottles of JET LUBE probably worth $300.00) Good stuff, we haven't had to buy any regular neversieze fo several years. Blade trunions were installed. Had to dig the cork out of the holes and chase the threads. Used new bolts, the old ones usually are pretty rough when you back them out with the 1"air gun. So this gets a paint job,not a showpiece paint job though. David decided it was a good place to buff off some of the rough stuff. It's a lot easier to paint some of it now before putting it back together. We've taken the angle blade off and will be putting on a straight blade with a tilt. It doesn't have the tilt valve, so we'll have to add that spool and run new hoses to the blade. We've located a temporary DONOR valve in our inventory. We're going to borrow the valve of of an HD16B for the time being. That tractor needs a ring and pinion and we can't find those parts. In the B series the 11s 16s and 21s used this same valve setup. Slow process when you have a day job that keeps interfering. |
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Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8280 |
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Awesome pictures of your work on these big machines.
Thanks for keeping us up to date. Regards, Chris |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8633 |
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Dang, you guys can get er done in a hurry. It'd probably take you an hour to do what I've been working on for a year and a half on my HD5G. Just love your pictures/stories. Thanks, Darrel
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Josh H
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: Carnesville, GA Points: 128 |
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Thanks for posting. You are going to make him get youtube
Vids of it in the woods, right?????? I hope so. I'd love to see id dragging logs and hearing the engine and the sound of the tracks |
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 31067 |
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Mel, what color and brand of paint are you using, would be interested as I fully intend to repaint the old 7G when I get time!!
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HD6 Merv
Silver Level Access Joined: 03 Aug 2010 Location: New Zealand Points: 480 |
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Love your storys and pics boys; but one wee question ??
The bush rigged 11-B; one with the winch; that has a engine problem. Why not rebuild the engine ? You guys should have a lot better luck with parts than us fellas down at the bottom of the world. I know minpaar don,t have any 6000 or 11000 kits; and havn,t had much luck tracking down any other manufacturers. So what do you guys stateside do ? Certainly enjoy reading your rebuild storys. And your right about grapples; and integral winch arches too; on D6C/D final drives. The deadshafts will flex/bemd, etc and then there is expensive toothache ! Cheers from kiwiland |
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tits tyres and tracks
they all cost you money |
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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Merv, you're right we could rebuild these. It's just been easier and faster to switch them out. We have 3- 11000 engines that can be rebuilt. Haven't looked for any of those parts lately,but I'm sure they are becoming hard to find.
Dave, the paint right now is Cat. If we use yellow paint we just go with Cat. This paint is several years old. We bought 2-5Gal cans in Idaho because we couldn't buy it in California any more. We thought the old recipe was better than the new concoction that the state of Ca. was requiring. Don't know if it really mattered in the big scheme of things. When you get around to it the Caterpillar paint is probably an easy choice. When we paint the orange tractors we have a couple of different choices that are horribly expensive. |
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Tracy Martin TN
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gallatin,TN Points: 10624 |
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Nice job!
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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R.KYLE
Bronze Level Joined: 01 Jun 2013 Points: 75 |
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WE NEED UPDATES MEL VERY INTERESTING STUF.
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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OK, a quick update. That whole day job thing slowed us down. Did get the tilt valve off the DONOR tractor HD16 tank.
Also got the belly pans of. We'll start pressure washing soon. Won't get much done this weekend. We have to cook 1100 lbs. of beef roasts for the local volunteer Fire Dept. It's our annual fundraiser. We'll serve 1000 to 1500 dinners. I light the fire at 6:00 AM and go home about 11:00 PM (It's the only day of the year that I hate meat by the time it's ready to eat.) just kidding, but it's a workout day. |
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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Ok, we're back, that whole day job thing really cuts into this fun stuff. So after a major pressure washing we put all the oil back in. New oil in the transmission/torque converter. steering clutches etc.
Went on to the swing frames, I think we do it different every time,whatever we have available to put them on. It's always convenient if you're close to the main shop where all your regular toys are. Ok had to go find some tracks. Had an Idea where I left them several years ago. We had pins and bushings turned in these years ago. They were pretty crusty looking. But one quick firehose job and they look good. |
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ACcrazy
Silver Level Joined: 30 May 2012 Location: Eureka, Califor Points: 97 |
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Looking good, Mel.
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AC Mel
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: N.Ca. Points: 1101 |
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Bruce, glad you're still out there,We're still coming to Weott to get that HD20,I'll keep you posted.
So we drug these tracks around until we got them to fit. So the tracks fit and then we had to put the blade on. We opted for a new cutting edge and corner bits. Kind of looks like this when installed. David couldn't stand it, so he got out his paint gun before we loaded it. So we loaded it and delivered to the job. Stay tuned for working videos as soon as I can splice and edit them. |
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ACcrazy
Silver Level Joined: 30 May 2012 Location: Eureka, Califor Points: 97 |
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Oh yeah, still here and always will be. This is the best place to get my dose of AC dozers.
Looking forward to meeting up with you guys in Weott. Incidentally, I've been checking on the entrance to the 21 and it's as undisturbed as when we were last there. It's looking like that machine is destined to rust in peace where it's at, unfortunately. |
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JohnCO
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Niwot Colo Points: 8992 |
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No luck in talking the owner into selling it?
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant |
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ACcrazy
Silver Level Joined: 30 May 2012 Location: Eureka, Califor Points: 97 |
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No John, no luck. Of course we haven't tried recently but when we were in talks before, she stopped communicating with us. Have no idea why and I didn't press the issue. Maybe we can get Mel to. |
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JohnCO
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Niwot Colo Points: 8992 |
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She may have passed away too.
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant |
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