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welding cast manifold, pointers?

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ChuckLuedtkeSEWI View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Mar 2010 at 8:29pm
I might get rained out for work tomorrow, and I was going to try and repair the manifold for my D17.  I took it off the other day and the exhaust ports all look pretty thick and has quite some life left in it.  The problem with it is the previous owner must have driven under something low, and hooked the muffler and popped the casting out around the threaded outlet.  I have one of the broken pieces, and was going to find a cast fitting to cut another piece out for filling in the hole and then weld it all up and put a stub piece of pipe in the top and weld that in and just clamp the muffler over it.  I figured it would be a fun thing to try and it's broke already anyways so I'm not out anything if I mess it up anymore.  After doing some reading tonite about welding with Ni rod, cleaning and preheating sounds like the key.   If I do this, I'll bring my dad over for coaching as he was a welder but was looking for any other tips before I get into it.  Thanks.
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DREAM View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DREAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2010 at 8:34pm
Yep, cleaning and preheating. Better to media blast if you can. That gets it really clean down into all of the little nooks and crannies. I have had very good luck with Jupiter 888 rods on cast. Don't forget to "peen" the area with a small hammer to help relieve stress in the metal and avoid cracks while it slowly cools.
Brazing is another option, but not as durable as a good electric weld.
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2010 at 9:13pm
Chuck, The guys at the shop always had a big chunk of insulation they wrapped around a casting after welding. I think cooling slow is almost as important as clean area and preheating. I had a bad manifold on my 45 years ago and a fellow said he would fix it for me. Every time he touched the rod to the part it turned to dust and crumbled to the floor. He was trying to weld around the bolt hole for the muffler. I found out a new one was a good investment. It's been on there for over 20 years now. Good luck and let us know how it turns out. Charlie
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Darrell, Jr. (MN) View Drop Down
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Charlie has a good point about cooling slowly.  At the welding shop that work at in the winter we use the floor dry tube to bury a piece in until cool.  I know it sounds funny but I heat a straightened a cast piece and put it the tub over night and it was slightly warm the next morning.
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7060 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7060 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2010 at 10:02pm
Ive always heard your supposed to bury it in warm sand. Same principle that Darrell mentioned. On smaller things I wrap them up with old rags, on your manifold if you bury it there may be air pockets inside still which may make it difficult. The stress cracks start popping up seconds after you break arc, so you may want to have things ready. If I can I try to have someone holding a torch on it behind my weld, but may not be necessary. Good luck
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StanOhio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StanOhio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2010 at 10:58pm
Yep, preheat,run bead and peen. Bury it in tub of ashes to cool.   
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Osage_Orange View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Osage_Orange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2010 at 10:59pm
For post heating, a helper with a rosebud or cutting torch will be a big aid in avoiding stress cracking while it cools.  Practice, practice, practice (and with cast iron, it still may crack........good luck)
Why is there never time to do it right the first time, but always time to go back and fix it?
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JC-WI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2010 at 2:46am
 
Couple manifolds to look at,  front one was in worse shape than the back manifold. Actually the throat was almost all broke off. So I found a T fitting that looked about right and cut it to fit about 70 percent of the manifold , then had to cut one more piece to braze into the bigger hole that was under the nipple. Worked out great. Brazing is not as tuff as nickel or cast iron but lots easier to work with. Just grind the metal till there is no rust or dirt and then use a flux coated rod. Like others say preheat the work area and let it cool slow. Make sure the braze flows, not gob up, about the same deal for welding, get it penetraed to the inside.
 If welding, use a air hammer with a pointed punch and weld for an inch or two then grab air hammer and pean it quick then go back and weld another inch or two. Don't let it cool down to fast. Floor dry or kitty litter works great for throwing it into and covering up.
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firebrick43 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote firebrick43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2010 at 9:53am
I heat castings in the wifes oven to 500 degrees, weld/braze and then put back in the oven and drop the temp 50 degrees every hour.

I don't care for arc welding as cracking even when doing it properly is a possibility.  You can buy cast iron rod for oxy/fuel welding, which is the cats meow.  Put nickel rod to shame in strength and appearance, but takes a special touch.

Brazing in most applications, if you have a very tight fit, actually has higher tensile strength than arc welding electrodes, but it has to have a very tight fit to get the strength, but it should be alright in this application.  Just remember to flux the hell out of it and clean the hell out of it.  Don't grind, as it just smears the carbon into the pores, sand blast
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kbeatty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kbeatty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2010 at 12:40pm
I have tried what you want to do. You can get a new one with the gaskets for around $160.00. Good luck
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