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GM Guy 
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Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Location: NW KS / S.C. ID
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 Topic: 1977 7060 w/ updated fuel system: bleeds back
Posted: 29 Jun 2013 at 11:02pm |
hey all, our 1977 Allis 7060 power director tractor is having hard starting issues, and I feel slight power issues. it has the dealer installed fuel system update, getting rid of the square filter and hand primer for a water seperator spin on, a red holley electric pump, and a small final spin-on. it is very slightly wet at the first filter, enough to make dirt stick, but no drips, so I dont think the issue is that. the filters are a little old, but it seems pretty snappy and responsive when running, and pulls great at 2300, so I dont think there is much of a restriction. does the bleed screw on the small upper filter like to let air in? electric pump failing? check valves anywhere? also, is it normal for a 7060 to be pretty gutless at low RPM on headlands? (1200-1500 RPM) our 2-135 White doesnt mind idling down on headlands, granted its a big 478 cu in. motor, but I dont think a 135 hp tractor should be drastically better than a 160 hp tractor. do you think the fuel issue would cause this gutlessness down low? There was this one time when I slowed down too far on a headland, and was lifting it (sweep plow, blade plow, alfalfa crowner, etc. whatever its called in your area) out of the ground and cramping the wheel and hitting the steering brake at the same time, it stalled. I went to re-start, and it would not pick it up, I cracked the bleeder open, got fuel there, cranked some more, finally had to give a whiff of ether to get it going again. most of the time when starting it for the day, a guy needs to feather a slight wiff of ether to get it running. sometimes it will start by itself, but about 1/2 to 2/3 of the time it needs ether. I havent tore anything apart, and really dont want to go through and replace everything I think it may be, so any input to common issues on this fuel system would be greatly appreciated, thank you!
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Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.
If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help.
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GM Guy
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Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Location: NW KS / S.C. ID
Points: 1985
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Posted: 29 Jun 2013 at 11:11pm |
this is the tractor in question long axle, cast center duals, 18.4R38 on power adjust on all 4, 11.00-16 fronts. single battery tray, 3 remotes (2 fact. 1 dealer installed) 2 speaker radio, factory Allis quick hitch and factory top link with handle, and double clevis. a/c almost doesnt work, and seat squeaks with each bump, so not a pleasure to run, but still more enjoyable than a deere. :)
Edited by GM Guy - 29 Jun 2013 at 11:12pm
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Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.
If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help.
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Smokey Joe
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Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Location: Tennessee
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Posted: 30 Jun 2013 at 7:16am |
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If it doesn't want to start hot it sounds like your pump is weak, most 7000 series don't have the low rpm lug its the way the fuel system and turbo are setup they are meant to run higher rpm's and high boost pressure is what they like.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 30 Jun 2013 at 7:24am |
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Anything under 1700 rpm and the turbo may "go under". If injection pump timing is advanced a couple degrees or the automatic advance is adjusted to advance too quickly, this problem is worsened. Sounds like you've got something else going on. When it doesn't start when cold, is it smoking white out the exhaust ????? An intake manifold 30 psi boost gauge would give some indication of your HP output, without a dynomometer test.
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injpumpEd
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
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Posted: 30 Jun 2013 at 7:52am |
 GM Guy wrote:
hey all, our 1977 Allis 7060 power director tractor is having hard starting issues, and I feel slight power issues. it has the dealer installed fuel system update, getting rid of the square filter and hand primer for a water seperator spin on, a red holley electric pump, and a small final spin-on. it is very slightly wet at the first filter, enough to make dirt stick, but no drips, so I dont think the issue is that. the filters are a little old, but it seems pretty snappy and responsive when running, and pulls great at 2300, so I dont think there is much of a restriction. does the bleed screw on the small upper filter like to let air in? electric pump failing? check valves anywhere? also, is it normal for a 7060 to be pretty gutless at low RPM on headlands? (1200-1500 RPM) our 2-135 White doesnt mind idling down on headlands, granted its a big 478 cu in. motor, but I dont think a 135 hp tractor should be drastically better than a 160 hp tractor. do you think the fuel issue would cause this gutlessness down low? There was this one time when I slowed down too far on a headland, and was lifting it (sweep plow, blade plow, alfalfa crowner, etc. whatever its called in your area) out of the ground and cramping the wheel and hitting the steering brake at the same time, it stalled. I went to re-start, and it would not pick it up, I cracked the bleeder open, got fuel there, cranked some more, finally had to give a whiff of ether to get it going again. most of the time when starting it for the day, a guy needs to feather a slight wiff of ether to get it running. sometimes it will start by itself, but about 1/2 to 2/3 of the time it needs ether. I havent tore anything apart, and really dont want to go through and replace everything I think it may be, so any input to common issues on this fuel system would be greatly appreciated, thank you! |
Sounds like the pump is the problem. Either the Head & Rotor is worn out, or the Delivery Valve stop/screw is leaking or backed out. The hard hot start after stalling it is an indication of that, not losing it's prime.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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GM Guy
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Location: NW KS / S.C. ID
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Posted: 30 Jun 2013 at 11:05am |
forgot to mention, the pump has been worked on under the previous owner, dont know to what extent. It has a injection pump shop sticker on it. It will start ok sometimes though, it isnt consistent either way, so that is what makes me think air intrusion, rather than a bad IP. it will hot restart, just got to bleed and whiff ether, We never have to pour ambient temp water on it to get it to start, which I have heard is the best diagnosis for seeing if the pump is bad.
If the pump does turn out to be bad, what pump can be made to work (aka set to 7060 specs) an L2 pump, they had the 158 hp 670T, or the N6 with the 670HI 220 hp? so the low RPM gutlessness is probably normal? from what I understand about the hydraulics on these, when called upon, they can put a decent load on things, correct? I am thinking the low (like 1000-1400 RPM) RPM combined with the high load was the cause of the stall, not the IP.
also, what was cause oozing under the intercooler? old gaskets giving up, or something deeper? no water in oil, no oil in water. it leaves dusty tear trails. should I re-torque the bolts? finally, how often does the overhead need ran on these? I think I am pickup up a slight whisp at idle. thanks for all the input everyone, it is much appreciated.
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Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.
If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help.
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GM Guy
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Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Location: NW KS / S.C. ID
Points: 1985
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Posted: 02 Jul 2013 at 5:28pm |
IDK what changed, or what happened, but it is running good this year. all I did was flip the washer on the bleed screw, and we opened and shut a plastic bleed screw pre- IP. if there was an air leak, we may have made it seal up, as it starts great now and doesnt bleed back.
maybe it wasnt cranking fast enough either, because we also put a near new pair of interstates in, and it cranks much better. as far as the down low power, cant say if it improved, as this go around with the summer fallow, we got a 15 ft. undercutter/blade plow behind a 7060. :) on that note, with such a light draft load, is it OK to run at 1800 RPM? I am running in low on the PD, 5th on the stick, and low on the range shifter, and am running 1800, and all seems well.
I am aware that too low with too big of load will slip the clutchpacks, but figured under this light of load 1800 RPM is ok, correct?
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Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.
If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help.
|
|
injpumpEd
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 5074
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Posted: 02 Jul 2013 at 6:27pm |
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1800 wont hurt anything with a light load like you described. Now, if you were trying to pull a 25' blade plow, 1800 would not be good.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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GM Guy
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Location: NW KS / S.C. ID
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Posted: 02 Jul 2013 at 6:54pm |
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we have been warned numerous times about the clutchpacks, so when we got the bigger equipment on, its at least at 2100, and sometimes 2200 RPM. if we find something bigger to really work it, 2300 will be found.
Edited by GM Guy - 02 Jul 2013 at 6:55pm
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Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.
If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help.
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richercl
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Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Location: 47553
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Posted: 01 Nov 2016 at 8:51pm |
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Can you send me pictures of the 3rd remote setup? Did you add another hydraulic spool valve on the block in the back of the tractor or how did they do it?
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