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What does your Wd/Wd45 show on voltmeter?

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79fordblake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What does your Wd/Wd45 show on voltmeter?
    Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 8:50pm
Been having electrical problems with my WD45 the last couple weeks. Never had any charging problems for years. Ran all new wires and switches last year.
Been changed over to alternator long ago before I was born.
The battery on it came from walmart and is 8 years old and it died last week. Got a new battery put it on, cranked it and let it run and used it awhile, never thought more about it. Well today battery was dead again, so I figured alternator must be bad. Had the new walmart battery tested, checked good. Alternator failed the test with flying colors, barely made 12 volts.
 
Tractor has never had a volt gauge on it. Bought one for it and wired it up, installed new alternator. At a medium high idle with lights on battery is discharging. With it wide open it will barely get over 13 vots. How many volts yall getting on yalls gauge?
 
I have a 48 A John Deere that will idle low enough you can count fan blades and it still charges 14volts and my WD45 is turning way faster than that at idle so rpm can't be the issue.
 
So im thinking they owe me another alternator. I went over all the wires, switches, cleaned connections, grounds. Took alterantor bracket off and sanded it all down where it bolts on, made no difference. Checked for drain when everything is off and it all checked fine.
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Jeff Z. NY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff  Z.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 9:08pm
On thing you might try is a small 2 1/2 inch pulley on the alternator and make sure the belt is good and tight.

I switched over to the smaller pulley and got good results.
I Love Meatballs and Dumplings on Toast with Gravy and Rosemary and ??? {Open For Suggestions}
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Dave(inMA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 9:11pm
To Jeff Z's point: make sure that the alternator is charging before you pull it off the tractor and proclaim it dead. Could be that it needs to spin at higher rpm to generate current.
WC, CA, D14, WD45
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79fordblake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 9:16pm
It has the same pulley as the old alternator so I don't think thats the problem. The alternator I have on the JD is the same size and model and same pulley size as the one on the WD45 and it will put out 14v at about 600 rpm. The one on the WD45 now barely charges with the engine wide open.

Edited by 79fordblake - 28 Aug 2011 at 9:18pm
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stray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 9:58pm

No harder than it is to pull off, after checking the belt tention and wiring, I would take it off and let the parts store test the new alternator. If it test good you got to have a large draw on it some where. Also if it test good ask what rpm it engages, at work we had arrow boards with a single cylinder Lister Petter motors running an alternator for power. Some standard alternator would work fine the next wouldn't engage, so we had the alternator shop set them up to engage at a lower rpm.

1969 190XT series 3
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Jeff Z. NY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff  Z.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 10:01pm
There have been plenty of alternators that fail on a test right out of the box.
I Love Meatballs and Dumplings on Toast with Gravy and Rosemary and ??? {Open For Suggestions}
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange Tractors Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 10:03pm
What kind of alternator did you put on it? Some of the one wire Delco's have to spin pretty fast to start charging.
 
Robert
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79fordblake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 10:21pm

GM 3 wire, I hate 1 wire alternators. All of our electric start tractors have GM alternators.

 

stray,

There is no draw, I've did the parasidic drain test with the multimeter and I did pretty much the same thing with a test light. Alligator clip on postive post and test light touching postitive cable, light didn't light up and the multimeter showed no draw. With ignition switch on test light lights and multimeter shows draw(within normal limits).


Edited by 79fordblake - 28 Aug 2011 at 10:27pm
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79fordblake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 10:24pm
I went through 5 alternators on my 73 Ford F100 a few months ago and I finally got a good one the last time. They all say remanufactured in china right on it. So I spent the bucks and got a Ford Motorcaft alternator that said made in USA, works great. Does that tell this country anything??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flint23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 12:26am
If you got one, hook a multi meter straight to the battery and check it that way. I went 12 volt a year ago and use the stock ammeter, it dosen't show much of a difference if at idle or full throttle but the bat, keeps charged.
been there done that, not doing it again...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 12:31am
Yep I did use my multimeter at switches, starter, alternator and at battery. I have a volt gauge in place of the amp gauge. Taking the alternator to town in the morning.
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Jeff Z. NY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff  Z.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 5:42am
You can't always blame China.
There are three alternator/starter rebuidling companies in the Schenectady,NY area that do the rebuilding here.
I Love Meatballs and Dumplings on Toast with Gravy and Rosemary and ??? {Open For Suggestions}
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79fordblake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 1:34pm

Every one I get says remanufatured in China on a sticker on the side.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 1:38pm
I took the alternator to the parts store today and had it tested, it failed the test. Got another one and they tested it and it showed good.
 
Got home put it on the tractor and at idle its barely 12v. Run it up to about half throttle and it shows about 14v. So I guess its ok, I'll just get a smaller pulley like already suggested.
 
Just makes no since to me since the same size, make, model alternator on my other tractor puts out 14v at low rpm with stock pulley.
 
Just the way it is I guess.


Edited by 79fordblake - 29 Aug 2011 at 1:39pm
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Jeff Z. NY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff  Z.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 2:52pm
You can do really high tech tests on 10 alternators that are all the same and get 10 different test results.
I Love Meatballs and Dumplings on Toast with Gravy and Rosemary and ??? {Open For Suggestions}
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roddo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 5:55pm
I know you said its the same pulley that is on your JD, but belts are like gears.  Your JD may have a bigger crank pulley making it a non issue.  Get a smaller pulley and you wont have to worry about this anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 6:01pm
what resistance are you using in your signal line to get it to start charging ???
 
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 6:18pm
They are the same size I already measured it yesterday to see. Both have same pulley on alternator and same size pulley coming off of the fan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 6:26pm
I'm using a 1N5408 diode. Using it on all my tractors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2011 at 7:26pm
Well I thought all my problems were solved but the last couple days the 2nd alternator is now giving problems to. I can crank the engine and give it full throttle and the alternator does nothing, tap it on the back with a rubber mallet and it starts charging. Other times I can start the tractor and it starts charging. Im taking it back to the parts store tommorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2011 at 9:46pm
Hmm... well, if you're getting alternators that are Made In China, and you're certain that has some bearing on the problem, and you keep putting the same type back in, expecting different results, I'd say you're at LEAST unjustifiably optimistic.

I don't get stuff like that at big-box type stores, because I have an automotive electrical rebuilding shop about two miles from my place... I can carry something in, and most likely, they'll have an identical part sitting on the shelf ready-to-go, and if not, or I have reason to want the EXACT one back, I can pick it up either same afternoon, or next morning, ready-to-go.

Now, and alternator that doesn't charge, particularly after being rebuilt, or newly manufactured, can do so for a variety of reasons.  One thing I would SERIOUSLY investigate, is whether the alternator you're putting in EXACTLY matches what came out.

By this, I don't mean that the part numbers, specs, etc. all come out... it's wether the one you TOOK OUT is actually 'stock', or if it had been internally modified.

Many modern so-called 'upgraded replacements' have totally different output curves from OEM units... the alternator windings are connected in delta, rather than wye orientation, so they develop substantially higher current, but lower voltage, and consequently, they don't charge for pooh at low RPM... and of course, imported electric motors and alternators are frequently not made to the level of precision... they have larger air-gap between rotor and field poles, and consequently, poorer efficiency.

IF you're not getting the voltage output you're expecting, you can install a diode forward-biased in the regulator's SENSE line, which will cause the regulator to 'think' the output voltage is 0.6v LOWER than it actually is, so it'll bump it UP accordingly.  It's not something I'd suggest as a solution to a 12v problem UNLESS you're running some sort of a battery-isolator (like marine and RV systems use to charge two different batteries from one source)... or if you were using an alternator set up for 6v... and trying to charge an 8v battery (it'd take either 3 or 4 diodes in series to do this).

Just some things to consider...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79fordblake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2011 at 10:13pm

It shouldn't be to much to ask to get a good alternator to charge the battery and run 3 lights on a 55 year old tractor. The first alternator I took off this tractor my grandpa put on there many years ago so it was a GM alternator that was originally built in America and it lasted over 20 years. Now I get the same alternator but it has been rebuilt in in some god forsaken place that doesn't give a crap about reliablity and I have been through two in less than a month. Now I have a tractor that has served my family greatly for decades and now it isn't reliable b/c I can't get a stupid reliable alternator! Maybe that clears up my frustration. Sorry had to vent alittle.

 

I can't get a good alternator when all the parts stores around me all sell the same junk. I wish I had never let them have my other alternator as a core so I could take it and have it rebuilt right.

Everything we need should still be made right here in the USA like it use to be back when Allis-Chalmers, John Deere, Farmall, Ford, Chevrolet, and Chrysler all knew what they were doing and made quaility parts. We are slowlty still goin to the way side, we currently rank 5 in the world that means were gettin pretty bad.


Edited by 79fordblake - 10 Sep 2011 at 10:21pm
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