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hermin's dad 
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Location: Rostraver PA
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 Topic: tips on increasing horsepower on AC-B
Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 12:54am |
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any tips on increasing horsepower, son wants to tractor pull on limited budget
Edited by hermin's dad - 22 Jul 2011 at 12:56am
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Charlie175
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 5:22am |
Not a lot you can do. What year is it? You can use a D15 governor spring to get more RPMs and power out of it, but when it lugs down you will have the same power as before. That is the cheapest thing to do.
I am not sure of any piston combos that allow higher compression
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Charlie175
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 5:25am |
I just remembered the B engined power units, they were more powerful but I don't know how they achieved the extra power. More RPMS?
Problem I run into is at wide open I exceed the 3mph limit on the sled in 1st gear.
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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GregLawlerMinn
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 7:09am |
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An engine from a D14 (149 CI) or D15 Series II (160CI) is a relatively easy transplant,
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What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers.
Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2.
With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC
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mlpankey
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 9:22am |
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compression and or increase cubic inches. limited budget compression is the best hp maker in my opinion but knowing how to extract the power (torque) from high ratios above 12to 1 seams to seperate some from others. Of coarse one could offset grind the crank to the c farmall 1 3/4 rod journal probably have to cut and shorten the rod but that i think would pick up the cubic inches by adding stroke from the reducing the journal size by offset grinding the crank.
Edited by mlpankey - 22 Jul 2011 at 9:29am
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Gary in da UP
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 9:30am |
 GregLawlerMinn wrote:
An engine from a D14 (149 CI) or D15 Series II (160CI) is a relatively easy transplant, |
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X2
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 10:54am |
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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wkpoor
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 11:05am |
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I've got a Farmall H that has high top pistons and a head milled to match. 220lb cranking compression. Pretty overall cheap mod.
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Dick L
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 11:29am |
What condition is the B in now? What do you mean by limited budget? What weight class are you thinking of pulling in? If you are pulling in a Division 1 then when I was pulling you could not use a D-15 block which would be a quick jump with very little work. That would be where the B would be most competitive. If the tractor is not in need of a fresh overhaul it would be competitive without any extra HP. Division 1 is what most clubs have with some clubs letting you get by with some modifications. Check the rules where you might pull. If you do not have the funds to put in a larger engine kit you might rework the head to gain some extra over another B that has not. You can make the B do the same as my C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM4YbM8keMM
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hermin's dad
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 11:39am |
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tractor runs has good oil pressure,seems strong have extra head need specs on milling to raise compression,possible port and polish if it makes any sense kid just went to local grange fair dont know about any governing body just wants to have fun at local events
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Dick L
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 12:10pm |
Oil pressure does not tell you much with that engine. Pressure is built within the pump and oil filter. Oil to the bearings come from the cam spinning with oil in the center. You can have bad bearings and still have good oil pressure. They are not like engine oil pressure systems that build pressure at the bearings.
The head on the tractor the day of the pull in the video had 1.5 Chevy valves in both the intake and exhaust. It had .150 off the face of the head. I had the ports in the head reamed to match the manifold.  I don't have a picture of under the valves but I ground out any material below the seats that could restrict the flow below the valves. After I had the valves and seats ground, faced and lapped in place I opened up the hole out to the seats as much as I could without damaging the seats to get as much flow into the head. If you look at the manifold you will see that the holes are not very large in some manifolds. I found a difference between a short straight pipe and a long straight pipe. If you notice in the video the straight pipe quite high. If you go to the larger intake valves that I used some you would need a copper head gasket because to use the larger valves it is necessary to open up the firing chamber to where the metal ring in the standard gasket acts as a glow plug causing a ping and then will get hot enough to blow thru the metal ring.  You can cap your pistons under the firing chamber to bring up the compression more. You would have to have each cap the exact same weight.
Edited by Dick L - 22 Jul 2011 at 12:58pm
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DrAllis
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 5:19pm |
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The quickest and maybe cheapest would be bolt on a WD45 or D15II (best choice) carb to the existing manifold and if the hole in the manifold isn't as big as the carb throttle plate...open it up to match. You will see a difference and leave air cleaner off.
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hermin's dad
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 5:22pm |
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what valves did you use. small block? Did you have to put in new seats or just reseat on existing? What head gasket?
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mlpankey
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Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 8:43pm |
Not taking anything from Dick L . He is a very capable and knowledge is top notch . On the heads the four exhuast ports with small oem exhaust valves normally flow a higher percentages than the siamezed intake ports. So some money could be saved by just porting and inlarging the intake valves. On the 149 ci and 226 engines I personally have seen lugging power lost by radical changes to a already welll flowing exhaust port. Dicks pic of laying back the combustion chamber for a larger intake valve is worth paying alot of attention to . It will make more power even at the expense of some compression.jmho
Edited by mlpankey - 22 Jul 2011 at 8:45pm
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Kip-Utah
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Posted: 26 Jul 2011 at 1:36pm |
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If it's a decent running B competing in stock (Div.I) type pulls. Give it a good tune up, use a CA or power unit spring for a few more rpms. CA spring gives about 150 rpm which is exactly the 10% over that some rules allow. Now forget about any MORE power & build a proper hitch, work on getting your weight balanced & tires adjusted, and go place well or easily win the 2,500 lb. class at many pulls. These little tractors work great just the way they were built! (Note in my experience a C has better natural balance and slightly better gearing for tractor pulling. The Cs gearing allows you to turn a few extra rpms w/o blowing the horn).
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HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!!
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 26 Jul 2011 at 7:15pm |
I had absolutely no clue that a C and a B had different gearing. B final drive pinion is 14 tooth. bull gear 67 tooth.
Cs are not all the same 19,15 and 12 tooth pinions and 94,82 and 69 bull gear teeth respectively. The 15-82 combination was used in rubber tired Cs 109 up to C 23080 12 and 69 was the steel wheel combo and all Cs after C23080
You may be able to use C gears in B housings to gain some advantage.
You may need to check my math but here goes>
A B is final is geared 4.7857. Very Early C 4.9473. C on rubber up to C23080 5.4666. C on Steel and all Cs C23080 and up 5.75. Interesting!!
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Bill Long
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Posted: 26 Jul 2011 at 8:01pm |
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Ken, Even though I was involved for the life of the B, C, and CA i NEVER NEVER, was aware of that. In fact, thinking back I do not believe we were made aware of it either.
Thanks for the information.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 26 Jul 2011 at 9:52pm |
Bill
I read my AC B-C-CA parts books like I read my Bible.
Everyday. Over and Over. I find something new to ponder about all the time . Ken
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ACD19farmboy
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Posted: 26 Jul 2011 at 10:36pm |
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could some one show pics of a C pulling tractor hitch, i need to build one for my C!!! lol thanks!
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 7:32am |
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Pinkys old C had a custom built adjustable pulling hitch. Maybe the current owner will see this.
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Charlie175
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Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 7:45am |
14. “A” CLASS TRACTORS MUST HAVE ORIGINAL ENGINE. THAT IS, STOCK BLOCK AND STOCK HEAD.“B” CLASS TRACTORS MUST HAVE ORIGINAL FRAME AND MANUFACTURER’S BRAND OF ENGINE FITTING INTO THE ORIGINAL BELL HOUSING WITHOUT ADAPTER PLATES AND NO MORE OR LESS CYLINDERS.
So does this mean that "A" class tractors need to use what was originally supplied or what qualifies as a replacement block?
Edited by Charlie175 - 27 Jul 2011 at 7:47am
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Dick L
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Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 8:39am |
The picture below was taken to show the chicken bars but you can see where I cut off the old drawbar and welded in the straight drawbar so I could hook close to the 18 inches back from the axle center. Served me well over the years I pulled.
Notice the shim blocks over the drawbar at the clevis. I used those to adjust the hook highth.
Edited by Dick L - 27 Jul 2011 at 8:43am
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mtanut
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Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 8:46am |
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Silly question, if you are exceeding 3mph and not wide open maybe a change in the ring and pinion? My thinking is slow down the the rear end so you can run wide open and keep it under 3mph.
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I have a 185 Allis, 6060 Allis, Model K gleaner, SMTA ferg 35, ferg 20 (paps first tractor, Allis B (wife's)John Deere 240 skid loader and a bunch of the usual farm stuff.
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Charlie175
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Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 8:58am |
mtanut wrote:
Silly question, if you are exceeding 3mph and not wide open maybe a change in the ring and pinion? My thinking is slow down the the rear end so you can run wide open and keep it under 3mph.
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Makes sense, but I don't want to tear into the rear end for such a casual pull. If I was serious about winning at all costs then sure it makes sense. I am still learning setup, I used to weigh in exactly at 2500 with the front/rear balanced pretty good. The front barely came up at the end, but I would power out on most clay tracks. Now I remove weight from the rear so that I have slippage initially and I can go full RPM within a short distance. If traction is to high I still need to wait until I start slipping and then go full RPM hoping it will rev up. But I am still learning for sure, and only do it for fun.
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Dick L
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Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 9:19am |
Your not going to find different gears for the ring and pinion for the B without them being custom made. 3 MPH is a tuff one for the B if you just raise the RPM with a spring. The extra HP from a stronger spring is only there if and I say if you can maintain those extra RPM's. As soon as you start to pull down the RPM's from the load what HP you gained is lost. It takes more HP added to the engine with changes that gives you more cubic inches to pick up the RPM's to maintain speed. If you pull at 3 1/2 MPH which is where the B is with the stronger spring you still won't gain all that much. Dropping tire diameter will be like dropping gears. What tire pressure are you pulling the B. I pulled my B's at 6 psi or slightly lower in the 2000 and 2500 classes. Spun out to easy at 8 and 10 psi.
I also modified my B pulling drawbar to get the hook closer to the axle center. That causes the sled to pull down on the rear with less lift to the front.
Edited by Dick L - 27 Jul 2011 at 9:22am
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Kip-Utah
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Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 9:42am |
Bs & Cs use same ring & pinion in the differential and it's not possible to mix & match pinion & bull gears on the finals, because the C uses wider gears than a B. You can however put C finals on a B or for that matter B finals on a C. Kip
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HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!!
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mlpankey
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Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 10:40am |
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put a d15 series2 spring on it .if your looking for rpms.
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Jamie NC
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 9:37pm |
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Allis tractor puller CA WC WD D17
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hermin's dad
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Posted: 30 Jul 2011 at 9:49am |
Dick L ? What valves did you use.and source for copper head gasket
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Dick L
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Posted: 30 Jul 2011 at 10:33am |
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Small block Chevy Valves. Buy a sheet of copper from McMaster Carr and cut it. You can mark it like a paper gasket with a small ballpeen hammer with light taps.
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