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kinghunter 
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Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Location: Kansas/Missouri
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 Topic: Well I’ve had enough. Hd6
Posted: 09 Jun 2022 at 8:22am |
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I’m pulling the unthinkable. I am going to repower my hd6 with a 4bt cummins non turbo. Can’t seem to get the fuel pump working right again and parts are hard to find. Motor was fresh rebuild. I’ll keep everyone posted
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Eric B
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Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Location: British Columbi
Points: 953
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Posted: 09 Jun 2022 at 9:07pm |
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Sounds interesting... whenever possible please post some pictures of your journey doing this, thanks!
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Mactractor
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Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand
Points: 652
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Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 1:27am |
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Going where no man has gone before?
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3786
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Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 8:42am |
it sounds like a good idea but you have to wonder how performance will be affected having 107 less cubes. less torque for sure and in a direct drive machine, that could be huge. I dont know, just talking out loud here..... I have a running 6g for parts but I would hate to let go of a good pump for fear of ever needing it myself.
Edited by CAL(KS) - 10 Jun 2022 at 8:49am
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Coke-in-MN
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41609
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Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 8:57am |
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Seems a 4-71 Detroit would be a better choice as a HD-5 bell housing and clutch system would be bolt in - lot more HP and torque .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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pump grump
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Joined: 11 Mar 2012
Location: dayton oregon
Points: 25
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Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 8:58am |
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I had one worked on in Milton Freewater Oregon . He did a great job , and he has worked on AC injection pumps for years . I can get you his Ph number if you want . steven
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Lee Bradley
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Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Location: Kingston, WA
Points: 117
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Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 12:20pm |
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The 3-71 would probably be an easier fit and with a four valve head all the power you would need. The two valve works well in my HD-7.
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Codger
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 12:22pm |
If it were me I'd look at a 6B, or 6BT Cummins. The 4B would work also but you will need to keep the engine "wound up" for the torque rise to be acceptable I'm thinking. This will equate to a fast ground speed at times when you want slow. I have two 4B series and they are a great engine.
I concur with Coke that a 4-71 would be a good engine also, but earplugs would be a necessity.
Doesn't sound as if you've looked at installing a different pump yet. Not hard to make a support adapter and use a drive apparatus for a different style pump to be incorporated. Roosa-Master type pumps are very easy to obtain with a drive assembly that could be adapted to the engine via short driveshaft and couplers.
Just ideas and can get expensive if unable to do much of the engineering and/or work yourself.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
Points: 4753
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Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 3:36pm |
I was told some 60+ years ago that the Dogtroit was a poor man's diesel. Cheap to buy and cheap parts for that won't last long. The idea that a Dogtroit 2cycle will have low RPM torque is a fantasy. They were not know as Screaming Mimis for nothing. The 4B might be a good fit size wise and no problem to make it a 4BT or 4BTA which would have more power that any 471. Just as the 6BTA will run circles around a 671. Newer technology will burn fuel better, make more HP pre gallon and now ruin your hearing. What fuel issue are you having with the 4B? Do you have the rotary or inline pump?
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Mactractor
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Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand
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Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 4:37pm |
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A poor mans diesel and parts won't last long? The fact that 71's are still in service nearly 90 years after their debut would abruptly end that argument. Many HD6 owners down here repowered with 371 and were very happy with the tractors. If you can get a good pump for the original engine, all good. 4B or BT would never match the low down torque or the fuel efficiency of the AC6000. They would suit very small crawlers like Komatsu 21, 31.
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Ian Beale
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Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Location: New South Wales
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Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 6:25pm |
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The problem with "another pump" is that the PSB is driven at crank speed, not cam speed. Some of the later engines used Roosa and maybe Bosch pumps but I've never seen what happened to the drive system to do that
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Les Kerf
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Joined: 08 May 2020
Location: Idaho
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Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 9:09am |
 Lee Bradley wrote:
The 3-71 would probably be an easier fit and with a four valve head all the power you would need. The two valve works well in my HD-7. |
I agree. Considering the fact that the HD6 uses the same drive system as the HD5 I would be leery of overpowering the aging metals in those hard-to-source parts.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 9:23am |
PaulB wrote:
I was told some 60+ years ago that the Dogtroit was a poor man's diesel... |
Yup, a simple, relatively inexpensive engine for a simple, impecunious hillbilly such as I  I grew up with old Caterpillars and used to think they were the ultimate; since my Son-in-law bought his HD5G I have now learned Allis-Chalmers had some pretty good ideas too, one of which was using those nasty old Screamin' Jimmys that don't need a separate injector pump which costs thousands of dollars to overhaul. Your mileage may vary 
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kinghunter
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Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Location: Kansas/Missouri
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Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 3:59pm |
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This is the way I see it. The old Allis motor was what 40hp. The 4b cummins is 70hp. Cubes is not a problem if used properly. Look at the 301 in a 8010. Yes I’ll post pictures. Just got motor pulled out of a street roller. I’m looking at this as a good dirt dozer for finish work. And I’m a betting man it will run smoother than the old Allis.
I have explored many options to keep mine alive. I have called all over America and even Mexico. Best I could find to fix my psb was $1800 may take 6 months and no garuntee. My Allis motor has a fresh rebuild and ran good. But now it don’t.
These 4b can be turned to 100 horse if needed. But I think it will handle the old dozer fine. They are easy to get parts for and run all day on little fuel. A Detroit is out. my hearing is bad as it is and don’t care for losing rest.
I’m excited to start this journey and once I get it figured out and going if it works I’ll be converting several.
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Mactractor
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Joined: 20 Jun 2011
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Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 4:15pm |
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In that case, someone will want that rebuilt AC engine, find a usable pump, and continue running it in the application it was designed for.
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kinghunter
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Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 4:41pm |
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It will be forsale once pulled.
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Codger
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
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Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 7:47am |
When building my shop back in 2001 I borrowed a pretty new Case 550 finish dozer having a six way blade with a Cummins 4BT installed. It worked and operated fine/very well, but that dozer was engineered for that engine to power it. The 4B powered HD6 may, or may not be as good assuming gear drive, but again that 550G got along well. It was a powershift tractor.
I'm not a ramrod operator who doesn't pay for repairs, so a slow speed and finesse are important to me.
Edited by Codger - 12 Jun 2022 at 7:48am
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Lee Bradley
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Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 3:30pm |
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Can you turn down the torque? That is whats going to take out the finals.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 5:41am |
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 4:08pm |
From an (Oz) Power Farming Annual of 1970/71
HD 6B
Flywheel 66.5 hp @ 1800 rpm
Torque 237 ft lb @ 1200 rpm
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