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crane550 
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Joined: 26 Sep 2020
Location: Nampa, ID
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 Topic: Considering purchasing a Allis Chalmers
Posted: 26 Sep 2020 at 9:35pm |
Hello Folks,
There seems to be a lot of knowledge here, so I was hoping I could ask a few questions.
I own a manufacturing company, and have the need to occasionally load pallets (sub 1000 lbs) into the back of a trailer, as well as unload from a semi when our aluminum orders come in. We have loose gravel here, plus I have some dirt I wouldn't mind moving around and like the idea of different attachments, so I am opting for a tractor over a forklift. Plus I just kind of like the idea of a tractor. (she will think it's sexy)
I have been watching Craigslist like a hawk, and recently one came online. He wants $3500 for it, and isn't really sure what it is, he says "45". Based solely on these pictures I'm guessing it's a D15, but not 100% sure. I was hoping someone could confirm. We drive up tomorrow to look at it.
Does anyone have any tips on what to look for? Anything to be aware of? He says it's gas, and hasn't been started in months, I will be the first to try to fire it up. I can take more picutres when I am up there, but before I go it would be nice to be armed with a bit more knowledge. Anything helps. Thanks!
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Krazy Karl
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Location: SE MN
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Posted: 26 Sep 2020 at 9:59pm |
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Looks like series 4 d17. Check out if gear jumper. One disadvantage right now looks like have to fabricate a quick attach to front of loader or rig up your pallet forks to attach to the loader. Check what oil looks like on dipstick.loader looks welded up in the picture
Edited by Krazy Karl - 26 Sep 2020 at 10:00pm
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sho-man1
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Posted: 26 Sep 2020 at 10:00pm |
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Welcome to the forum. Looks like a D17 series 4, gear shift along with hydraulics,. Great tractor, $3500 with loader seams like a good price.
Brakes, clutch, fluids, hi-lo power director and popping out of third gear when coasting...normal things to look at.
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crane550
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Posted: 26 Sep 2020 at 11:35pm |
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Great, thanks! Any tips on how to test the clutch on an old tractor?
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jaybmiller
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Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 5:45am |
One issue, and it'll be a PITA, is that the loader won't work when you push in the clutch. That is an issue when you try to load/unload trailers..BTDT. I've gotten rid of 2 loaders on my D-14s much prefer the forklift, even over the one D-14 that has a 'true' loader setup( front mounted pump off crankshaft). Be sure the power steering works well ! ANY weight up front and sterring is hard. Even harder is stress on the front rims. My lot has sections of RAP and dirt and the 'big wheel' A-C forklift is GREAT. Only problems is when I try to get into one corner that is 'soft'.... The FL has much better lift control than a loader and a LOT easier to get around(tight turns and 'obstacles....). A tractor with loader has the skids waaaay out front, can be a nightmare to drive. The 3rd option is a tractor/forklift, where the tractor has a FL on the back, seat/steering turned around and a weight up front. Kinda inbetween ,great offroad FL, still longer than a FL though.
When test driving be sure both brakes work ! D-14s suffer rear axle seal leaks == no brakes.
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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AC720Man
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Location: Shenandoah, Va
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 6:20am |
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Although I would love to see you get an AC, since your needing to load a semi, it sounds like a 4x4 telehandler would be a better choice for you. The telehandler has a telescoping lift that will put the pallets farther back in the semi trailer. The tractor will only place them just inside the door and they will have to be relocated by hand.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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MACK
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 7:06am |
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Hydraulics on a series 4 will work with foot clutch in. Not like older models. MACK
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DougG
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 7:08am |
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You'll only be disappointed in the long run with this tractor- I second a telehandler, much more useful in your situation
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Tbone95
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 7:10am |
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Telehandler would be great but a whole ‘nother ballgame in $$$.
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Pete from IL
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 7:21am |
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If it is in working order I think you would like it. A D-17 series 4 has live hydraulics and the loader will still work with the foot clutch pushed in. The loader has had some welding done on it so you may want to look that over good. May need some re-welding or extra bracing.
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Sugarmaker
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Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 7:33am |
Welcome to the Allis Tractor Forum, Your right about using this in the yard and gravel. but as mentioned it may not do every thing you need. Life is full of compromises. The price for the tractor is not unreasonable if it runs moves has good oil pressure doesnt smoke and doesn't spue oil. But as mentioned it was not designed for loding pallets. Yes you may be able to rig it to work for you, sinec maybe this is only needed occasilnally/ that loader looks to have bee abused lots of welds and primer so the front end of the tractor wheel bearings and axle may be stressed/ worn too/ good luck with your desicion. if your good at fab and builing things this could work for you. i would go test on the tractor. It doesnt look like its has moved for a while. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 7:43am |
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For loading less than 1000 lbs every now and then looks to me like it'd work fine.Not a lot of money tied up in a piece of equipment that isn't used much.But you'll probably find a lot of other uses for it too.You could also look at FredPA forklift he has for sale be just the thing but the shipping might be a deal killer.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 7:47am |
 Tbone95 wrote:
Telehandler would be great but a whole ‘nother ballgame in $$$. |
Agree a lot of things are 'nice' and might be 'better' but the financial side of things has to
be considered if a company wants to stay in business.Not doing that is how a lot of farmers get in the financial hole.
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DMiller
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 7:53am |
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My 180 will lift a 2000# pallet of stuff, moving it very far is out of the question as front tires will not take it for long. Couple hundred to 1000 is fine with where not sure a D17 would do all that well.
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Boss Man
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 7:57am |
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To test the clutch drive the tractor in high gear and stand on the brakes. If it stops then somethings weak. Put the power director in low and try again. If it still stops the main clutch is weak. Judging by the loader take a big pry bar and try moving things around on the front end. Crank the steering wheel full stop to full stop while standing still and watch for movement.
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DSeries4
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 8:19am |
jaybmiller wrote:
One issue, and it'll be a PITA, is that the loader won't work when you push in the clutch. That is an issue when you try to load/unload trailers..BTDT. I've gotten rid of 2 loaders on my D-14s much prefer the forklift, even over the one D-14 that has a 'true' loader setup( front mounted pump off crankshaft). Be sure the power steering works well ! ANY weight up front and sterring is hard. Even harder is stress on the front rims. My lot has sections of RAP and dirt and the 'big wheel' A-C forklift is GREAT. Only problems is when I try to get into one corner that is 'soft'.... The FL has much better lift control than a loader and a LOT easier to get around(tight turns and 'obstacles....). A tractor with loader has the skids waaaay out front, can be a nightmare to drive. The 3rd option is a tractor/forklift, where the tractor has a FL on the back, seat/steering turned around and a weight up front. Kinda inbetween ,great offroad FL, still longer than a FL though.
When test driving be sure both brakes work ! D-14s suffer rear axle seal leaks == no brakes.
Jay
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That is a Series 4 D17. They have live hydraulics, so there is no problem using the hydraulics when you have your foot on the clutch.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 10:49am |
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A telehandler or heavy skid-steer would be my first thought, if money was no issue. I have owned /operated an AC 706b FL(forklift) for 15 years. It’s an older (1982?) rough terrain FL equipped with a gas engine, shuttle shift 4 speed trans, & 30’ double mast. It can lift 6000 lbs max at lower heights. They can be found in the $5000-7500 range. I’m very pleased with it. I’d take a FL over a tractor loader all day,week,month long.
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crane550
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 12:09pm |
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For a variety of reasons we are opting for a tractor over a forklift. The pallets are only a small part of what I want to do, and our current method for unloading is literally backing up an F150 to the side of the semi and sliding the pallets into the pickup. If budget was no issue I would go with a forklift and a tractor, but for now our budget dictates we can only do one, and as I already mentioned we have a lot of other uses too. Our business is rapidly expanding, and we have better places to invest our money, which is the development of new products. We have dirt we need to move, we have areas needing tilling, and the local rod and gun club can benefit from grateing the driveway. Also are looking forward to using a fence post auger and finally building our fence. The pallets are just the excuse for having the company buy it.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 2:52pm |
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There are also 3pt hitch forklift attachments that'd probably work for your application.One type uses a remote cylinder that's the type I have an another doesn't need a remote cylinder.I bought mine at an auction for $25.
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MACK
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 9:32pm |
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I have two for a 3pt for sale. MACK
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MattLF9
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 10:21pm |
Get the biggest skidloader you can find, trust me, she will be impressed. Here's one for only $70K. 
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crane550
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Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 10:30pm |
Mack, could you post a picture?
Well, I went ahead and pullet the trigger. SN is 79631, so appears to be a '65. Crotchety old fart selling it, but I think he's honest. He tells me it has never popped out of gear, and has never had the clutch slip on him. I couldn't make it slip as far as I'm aware. I went back and forth through all the gears, and it seemed OK. A little hard to get the shifter to pop out of 4th, but only once. The clutch doesn't engage (disengage? when the tractor starts moving) until the last 2 inches of travel or so near the top. I was hoping for more of a "lurch" when I pop the clutch out relatively quickly. Not sure if the engine RPM just dropped so it could catch up and get to speed or a slip.
There is a leak around the water pump, which I believe he had mentioned over the phone but I had forgot. Doesn't look to be a big deal, I will most likely have it rebuilt.
U joint for the steering next to your left foot is shot. Still turns well, but it's loose.
Didn't see any active drips of hydraulic fluid, but there was buildup everywhere. I imagine there are a couple of leaks. Who knows last time it was power washed. Probably never.
For those of you wondering, the hydraulics for the bucket (lift and tilt) are on the side of the transmission housing. It works even with the clutch in and is power down as well as power up. I was unsure about this going in.
I didn't test the PTO. I was fiddling with levers seeing what does what and the old guy yelled at me to stop. Hiding something? Doubt it. But would have been nice to actually see it. I did see the 3 point raise at one point when looking for the bucket lever. I would have liked a bit more time learning the levers without him barking orders at me.
Also the throttle control didn't do anything, it was always one RPM. Broken cable perhaps? I will look into it when I get it home.
Front end loader didn't look damaged apart from the typical bumps you see on the bucket. It just looked like it was reinforced with ugly welds. PO claimed he bought it that way over 30 years ago, someone added a bunch of extra gussets while trying to learn to weld apparently. If you shake the bucket side to side it feels tight and makes no noise.
Started up almost instantly. I swear it didn't turn over even twice. No smoke. Block was cold when I arrived, and PO claims it hasn't been started since last spring.
Enjoy the pics! Did I overlook something? Committed now, but hey, I won't ever be using it nearly to it's capacity.
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EPALLIS
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Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 12:22am |
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Wow: $3500 for a D-17 Series IV with loader and all it needs is a new seat?! What a deal. Congrats! Everyone on this site loves this model tractor, so if you do find something else, you will have plenty of help. Congrats! Going orange is going great!
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WF owner
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Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 5:53am |
You have a tractor that has a good reputation, is relatively easy to work on and will make your life much easier at a very reasonable price. Personally, I would much rather buy a tractor like yours, with original paint and the hundreds of hours of grease and oil, than a tractor that has been steamed clean and painted. I think you will be very happy !
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 5:55am |
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You got a very good deal for sure.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 7:08am |
I agree! It sounds like you did the best you could to check everything out and you had way more time than at a auction where they start them and shut them down. It looks way better out of the weeds! I think you did real good. Get a set of pallet forks to hook on to the bucket, maybe some weight on the back? Rears may be loaded with ballast already. and put it to work! Great addition to your business and around your property! I would drive that! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 28 Sep 2020 at 7:09am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Lonn
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Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 7:12am |
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Besides the D21 (a whole different category) you got the best of the D series. And for a good price. Congrats!
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 8:18am |
wow that's a LOT of tractor when you see the pictures ! query.... the hydraulic pump looks like it's in the 'PTO driven belt pulley' location, on a D-14, so is it live all the time ?I thought on a D-14, it'd stop when you push the clutch in? just curious...
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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Brad in WA
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Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 8:26am |
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Jay, I've got 6 D17 tractors, 4 of them Series IV. Yes the hydraulics are always live on a Series IV, the pump is driven off of splines in the clutch pressure plate through a set of bevel gears.
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crane550
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Posted: 30 Sep 2020 at 9:36pm |
What a week! My Uncle volunteered to take his trailer up to pick it up. Got it home.
Thought for a minute it might have a bad clutch, but I'm rethinking that. We got it home and were playing with it a bit and it seemed to slip. I was in R low backing up a hill and it slowed down and stood still for a minute. Almost like it was trying but not going anywhere. I was certain a clutch was in my future at that moment.
This could easily be user error. Not sure what was up, because now it seems great. It overpowers the brakes in low gear and high gear. Even went up a fairly steepish hill in 3rd HI and while I could tell it was drawing a lot of power I didn't get the feeling it was slipping at all. Perhaps I didn't have the power director firmly in place?
I do know that the clutch doesn't engage until about the last two inches on the top side of the travel. Meaning if I'm in gear and letting out the clutch the tractor moves when the pedal is 2 inches from the end of travel. Meaning the majority of the movement isn't doing anything. Does this seem right? I looked at my clutch pedal, and it seems like the linkage is worn. Are they supposed to be oval, like you see in the picture? Sorry for the blurry picture, it was getting dark.
Would love some more info on this. Thanks a ton!
BTW, we did use it to put our scrap bin into the truck, just like we needed. I will find out how much that pallet weights tomorrow when I take it into the recycler, but she lifted it up like it wasn't even there.
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