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WI Dave 
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Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: WI
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 Topic: allis 185 lift cylinders
Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 1:32pm |
Hello All. I have an allis 185. when I run the tractor (very little use, yard toy mostly) the lift arms raise and will not lower even with the control in lower position and me standing on the arm. Is this an issue with the controls valve body or something else? It rose enough to blow the seals out of 1 cylinder. Thanks all
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Joe(TX)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Weatherford. TX
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Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 5:07pm |
Check the actuator lever for the position control. It is most likely stuck on the shaft. The spring in the valve can't overcome the friction. It's a common problem. I've had the issue on my 180 and 170.
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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DrAllis
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Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 6:55pm |
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Constant pumping of the Traction Booster pump will eventually cause it to fail, so be advised to get this problem figured out.
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WI Dave
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Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:46pm |
levers seem to move ok or are you saying inside the valve body. I have blown seals in at least 1 of the lift rams so I am not running this until figured out. thanks for the quick replies.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 8:17pm |
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This has been discussed dozens of times and there are good pictures of the affected area on this website. The Traction Booster plunger (external) is either stuck in or is being held in by rusted external linkage from the Traction Booster or Position control levers. Both those levers should be FORWARD.
Edited by DrAllis - 30 Jun 2020 at 8:18pm
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DSeries4
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 10:33pm |
 WI Dave wrote:
levers seem to move ok or are you saying inside the valve body.I have blown seals in at least 1 of the lift rams so I am not running this until figured out. thanks for the quick replies. |
Even though the levers move freely, it does not mean that the linkages are not rusted up - they are! The 185 linkages under the side console has 3 pivot points. Even if one of them are rusted up, your linkage will not work properly and put pressure on the traction booster valve. Oil the hell out of each and every one of those pivot points (better yet, taken them apart, clean and reassemble with anti seize). Once done, make sure the traction booster valve isn't stuck in the pushed in position. After that, you won't have any problems. It's not a hard fix or expensive fix, just hard to reach some of these places without taking the console apart.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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WI Dave
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Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 5:02am |
I have to say that this is one of the most responsive forums that I am part of. Thank you all.
I have been searching here and elsewhere for more info on the valves trying to find more info than my sparse service manual. I will disassemble and clean up all the under console linkage in the next couple days also rebuild the lift cylinders. Any tips on where to purchase seals? I found 1 site at $43.00 per cylinder seems like alot for a seal and a wiper.
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DMiller
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Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 5:19am |
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Similar linkages on the 180s, where I had to take ALL of the linkages loose on my 180 to adequately free them up. A Stuck or jammed rockshaft can also do this as I was explained long ago.
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WI Dave
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Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 10:46am |
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All linkage is clean and free.
Valve shaft travels and detents as it should (to the best of my knowledge)
Reading other posts on the boost valve I see that the arms SHOULD be going up as normal procedure. But I cannot get the arms to lower even standing on them, 225 lbs, with lever in lower.
Can I hook in a high pressure gauge to tell me what is going on? or am I limited to a tester as is shown in manual? Can one be DIY'ed
Edited by WI Dave - 01 Jul 2020 at 11:00am
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DrAllis
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Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 12:17pm |
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The two rear levers (Traction Booster and Position Control) must be clear forward. The tallest lever on the front bank must be fully forward against the square cut-out hole in the console. Wire it in this position. Engine off. Stand on the draft arms. If they refuse to go down, look at the rear of the hydraulic valve stack. Towards the right side you will see an "acorn nut". Next to it is a short aluminum cap with two allen-head screws retaining it. Remove both screws and set the cap and spring off to the side. Take a hammer and punch and tap the spool forward until it hits the snap ring. Replace the cap/spring/bolts. Hitch should now go down.
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Joe(TX)
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Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 2:44pm |
Like DR said if both levers are not forward. it will not lower. If the lever circled (item 28) is not free on the shaft, it will hold the position/traction control spool in.
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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WI Dave
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Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 2:53pm |
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Did not see the small cover first time (old eyes)
Removed that and the spring broke as I removed it. Shaft was partly out. Cleaned it up, lubed shaft pulled it in and out to be sure it moved freely. I will get a new spring in it tomorrow and test this theory.
Thank you.
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Luke114
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Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 3:30pm |
The kit you found for $43 is about the best price. It seemed like a lot to me also, and I thought about just getting some standard cup seals for a few bucks. The internals on this piston are not very typical, unfortunately. There's a stack of 4 nested seals that is backed up on either end by a couple more pieces and that all needs to be the correct length when you screw the piston back together. It really just has a lot more parts than a normal cylinder would.
The kit also includes the much improved gland seal for the 190. I didn't use that on the 180 (I think the 185 uses the same seal as the 180). So you wind up with some expensive leftover parts. But after the initial sticker shock, I didn't regret getting the kit.
The rod end breather could really use an upgrade to keep dirt and moisture from getting sucked in. I would guess this is the main reason for losing seals.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 4:02pm |
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A quick fix for #28 being stuck is this. Loosen the nut one full turn on the bolt that goes thru #28. Turn the head of the same bolt in full revolutions until you can turn it freely. Leave the nut right where you left it. It is so rusty it will never fall off and now the linkage is free to move without going to all the extra work to free up the bushing inside of #28. I can do this procedure in under 3 minutes with the right wrenches.
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DCAC
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Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 9:26pm |
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Do what Dr. says about the cap and allen head screws. Did this on my 17 s4 and it cured my problem with the lift arms not going down. Thanks again Dr.!!
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WI Dave
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Posted: 03 Jul 2020 at 7:36pm |
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Thanks for all the input on this. All linkages were /are free. The torque boost solenoid was indeed stuck under cap. Freed that all up and all is good with the arms not going down. They now operate as intended. The leak in cylinder was just that but did draw my attention to the system having an issue.
I apparently needed to learn the operation of that system.
Thanks again everyone.
Happy 4th...
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 8:38pm |
So I had the same problem on the 170. Heres the cap I took off and found the spool stuck rearward. Sprayed WD on it put back together. I believe this is what the Dr was referring to?  
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WI Dave
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Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 5:29am |
That is the exact cause of my issue, other than my lack of knowledge of the traction boost system. Nice pic.
Edited by WI Dave - 06 Jul 2020 at 5:30am
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