Heat Pump woes

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   Well our fairly new system got to acting stupid, would lock out on being too cold (it wasn't) when in heat demand so had the service guys out.  The system would automatically trip out and cycle in Emergency Electric backup so he connected gauges to see what was doing. Had me cycle into AC to get the flow right to check charge then sat back.  All was good.  Returned to heat and still ALL OK, running normal.

He calls the company, seems ours was one in a run of units they had excess raw metal laying and coating with corrosion inhibitors, kind of forgot to wash completely off and assembled the systems.  Once in awhile one of these will show out where a tiny dribble of some leftover will come loose travel through the system and partially block the expansion/distribution valving.  Reverse flow for the other cycle albeit air cond. or heat and the little dribble of stuff floats away and hides out again.

To my surprise the pressures on the system were HUGE, over 400psi on the High Side, uses 410A refrigerant and has to achieve said high pressures to do what 22 or 12 did at under 250psi.  Twice the refrigerant in the system compared to old systems so how is it this would be better than 12 or 22?

	This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
	The Forum	Parts and Services	Unofficial Allis Store	Tractor Shows	Serial Numbers	History

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
DMiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33874	Post Options Post Reply Quote DMiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Heat Pump woes Posted: 14 Apr 2019 at 7:09am
	Well our fairly new system got to acting stupid, would lock out on being too cold (it wasn't) when in heat demand so had the service guys out. The system would automatically trip out and cycle in Emergency Electric backup so he connected gauges to see what was doing. Had me cycle into AC to get the flow right to check charge then sat back. All was good. Returned to heat and still ALL OK, running normal. He calls the company, seems ours was one in a run of units they had excess raw metal laying and coating with corrosion inhibitors, kind of forgot to wash completely off and assembled the systems. Once in awhile one of these will show out where a tiny dribble of some leftover will come loose travel through the system and partially block the expansion/distribution valving. Reverse flow for the other cycle albeit air cond. or heat and the little dribble of stuff floats away and hides out again. To my surprise the pressures on the system were HUGE, over 400psi on the High Side, uses 410A refrigerant and has to achieve said high pressures to do what 22 or 12 did at under 250psi. Twice the refrigerant in the system compared to old systems so how is it this would be better than 12 or 22?

Sponsored Links

JW in MO Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: South KC Area Points: 2664	Post Options Post Reply Quote JW in MO Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Apr 2019 at 8:01am
	Well now you see the 410a has no fluorocarbons in it so it doesn't deplete the ozone layer according to the 1980 something protocol, (been too long since I took the test). I have the same thing in my house, hate it, but had to put up with it at the time, it will get replaced with a lp furnace next time it f, acts up. Course the educated bureaucrats determined that our units that hold 5lbs each were the problem and not the millions of pounds that were released every space shuttle launch or thousands every rocket launch. Rant Over. As for the 410a, it does do a better job of heating but you dang well better keep the condenser clean in the summer. Now, are they going to flush it or replace it?
	Maximum use of available resources!

Fat albert Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 21 Jul 2018 Location: Blanchardville Points: 15	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fat albert Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 11:43pm
	Ask them to install. Biflow filter driers on both lines. My unit had same problem. That took care of it.

DMiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33874	Post Options Post Reply Quote DMiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 7:55am
	The servicing installer drained, purged and refilled thru a filter, they reused the old refrigerant and added a material called Liquid ICE, supposed to contain the remaining contaminants and depositing them in the filter on the system. Will see how works from here.

JW in MO Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: South KC Area Points: 2664	Post Options Post Reply Quote JW in MO Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 8:16am
	That word "purged," scares me, if it was with anything but nitrogen he's blowing smoke you know where. I followed the lead of an old boss of mine and told my employees that if I caught them putting anything but oil or refrigerant in a system they could find another place to work. Since working on systems that get down to -125 to -235 degrees fahrenheit I can assure you nothing beats a deep vacuum. I can guarantee you that if he filtered the refrigerant coming out and back in, and vacuumed that system to 250 microns, locked it off for 20 minutes, and it didn't rise more than 200 microns, you will have no problems at all. The problem with air conditioning guys is a lot of them believe that 500 microns is good enough but I've seen leaks at that level and especially if they use too large of a vacuum pump. Sadly, it could be the manufacture that recommends it, unlikely for a big name brand though, heck I had one manufacture told me to go buy some Flex Seal to fix a leaky drain pan once!
	Maximum use of available resources!

Stan IL&TN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elvis Land Points: 6730	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stan IL&TN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 10:25am
	I like a show called Wheeler Dealers where they buy an older car, fix it up and sell it for a profit. The car had a locked up compressor and the system was empty of refrigerant. He replaces the compressor and then charges the system with refrigerant and never pulls a vacuum on it. I'm no expert but I'm not stupid. I just shake my head.😕
	1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson

DMiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33874	Post Options Post Reply Quote DMiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 12:26pm
	The TV makes it look all TOO simple a fix, then the idiots with old junk cars take it to someone and expect that same level of Magic Crap and FREE too.