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bobkyllo 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: minnesota
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 Topic: Ford 5.4 experts
Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 3:09am |
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Ok guy's I'm getting into some unfamiliar territory but I guess that's how you learn and expand your abilities. Dad bought a 2006 Ford F-250 with the 5.4 liter 3 valve. The dealer claimed a customer test drove it and when he returned it was knocking and missing. Check engine light was on. Dealer claimed it was something to do with the cam phasers. Anyway the dealer lowered his price to a point where Dad couldn't say no. I'm positive I can fix it for him.
I guess my first step would be to see what the check engine light is on for.
But let's assume it's phaser related. Is it possible the vct selenoid is sticking giving me a knocking sound?
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 6:37am |
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Cam timing being 'Off' will change firing point and can cause detonation as well could end up with a valve to piston strike if let get out of hand. Damage to a piston from such a impact is Not self correcting except to grenade the engine.
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desertjoe
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Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 7:15am |
I would say first step is to get a code reader on it ASAP to see what the real issue is. I'm very surprised the "Dealer" has not already done so,,,,and they already KNEW what the problem is,,,and may be reason for the low price!! Hopin you can figure out and repair without too much cost. I had a 5.4 that had the same symptoms that wound up grenading the engine,,,started with a "ping" that quickly developed to a knock and locked up the engine ,,,in about a pair of minutes. Good Luck with yours.
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 9:08am |
check with Google ! I've heard HORROR stories about the 5.4 and won't buy one,no matter how 'good a deal' is offered. it's 'little' details like to pull the engine, step one disconnect battery, step two remove cab !!!. Spend an hour or two on the computer BEFORE you start turning wrenches. There's probably a youtube video of what's needed...
How good of a 'deal' did your dad get... $1000 off or more... I'd think if the fix was easy , the dealer would have done it,say spend $500 INSTEAD of the 'deal'. yeah, I'm cynical....but really if it was 'easy', the dealer WOULD have done it, said so and charged MORE for the truck.
My gripe with the OBD codes is that 6 different things 'could' be the cause. I say if sensor A is bad, the code should say sensor A is bad.
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 9:33am |
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You're looking for crank cam correlation codes. The next step is investigate the cam journals on the heads. A little minor scuffing won't hurt. If they're rough, it needs a motor. The cam phasers suffer the most from lack of maintenance. Also the timing chain tensioners gaskets will blow out and cause reduced oil pressure to the heads aggravating the condition. I have never seen one get far enough out of time to crash any valves. Most of the time they just need chains, tensioners, and phasers. I always put the solenoids in too just to be safe. There is a holder for the phaser to tighten the bolt, but it can be done without it. It's a gravy job. There's plenty of room between the radiator and engine when you get the fan and shroud out.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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desertjoe
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Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 10:46am |
Hey BobKyllo,,,since your Daddy already bought the trk,,,we gotta try to get it to live,,,,,,. Don't run engine anymore till you get the problem fixed,,!! The "tickin or clickin" you hear may be the timing chain / adjusters fixin to bail out, so be careful. Accordin to others, the 5.4 is an interference engine so you gotta be careful. As jay says there are lots of posts on the inherrant problems with the 5.4 phasers and timing chains as well as stripping out of the spark plug threads in the cylinder heads. I believe I would go after the timing chain first,,,
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DiyDave
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 6:31pm |
Phasers are easy... 
[TUBE]9nqdDZdctc8[/TUBE]
But if the photon torpedoes go, you is in deep doo-doo!
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DMiller
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 6:32pm |
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LOL!!!
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 7:02pm |
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Brian has the plan.. the original 5.4 from 2001-2003 was a GREAT motor. Had two run over 250K miles........... in 2004 they decided to put 3 valves and CAM PHASERS on the motor. VARIABLE CAM TIMING to get better gas milage. Problem is the Oil Solenoids get stuck... oil ports plug up.. cam chains wear.. cam chain tensioners wear......... As Brian said, don't delay, get if fixed NOW... look at the codes to confirm... all new parts in the cam chain area are probably in order........ Dealer knew this, just didn't want to put the TIME and $$$ into older truck.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 7:05pm |
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Cam timing is a big deal with TWO chain that goes around crank and both cams. Got to get everything in time.. cant be a tooth off........ there is a TOOL to help hold everything in time while you install chains... If it do it without the tool, verify timing after install... rotate a full revolution and check marks............ look at youtube video.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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HD6GTOM
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Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Location: MADISON CO IA
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 7:48pm |
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Good luck with it, our ford mechanic opted to pull the motors and do the work on his engine stand. He has had dozens of them out of pickups. While you have it out, put the spark plugs in it. And get him a couple of coil packs and toss them in the glove box. He'll eventually need them. I worked for a car dealership for 11 years and in all thjose years I never seen a good 5.4 motor. Anything we got in trade went to a dealer auction.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 7:55pm |
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Talked to neighbour who KNOWS this stuff...IF you decide to fix, put a higher pressure oil pump in. Original is too weak for the 3 v stuff...he also said to toss the 'old style' engine in..might (will ?) be cheaper solution..though be SURE to get the computer from the donor truck.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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1955CA
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Joined: 10 Sep 2018
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 496
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Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 9:41pm |
Well, I got over 320,000 on two 5.4's here. When should I expect them to be bad motors? LOL. I try not to pay too much attention to internet horror stories. They just make you paranoid for nothing. I have a 2010 VW Tiguan 2.0L turbo that should have grenaded by now too because of what everyone says is they have a bad cam chain tensioner that will fail.
I run good quality synthetic oil and change it often. So far so good. Now i gotta go find some wood to knock on, LOL.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 4:29am |
I've still got the 2000 F150 my son gave me when he got him a new F250 Diesel. Up to 234,000 miles it had run many wonderfuls and never used any oil between oil changes. Always had Pennzoil 10W30 every 3000-3500 miles in it. At 234,522, the engine developed a sporatic "click" in the engine that I was thinkin was the timing chain. The oldest boy was driving it to town when he told me the clicking started getting louder all of a sudden and then started knocking and engine died while he was trying to get to where he could pull over. Got it home and engine was locked up tighter than ole Shameless's wallet. Pulled oil pan and looked like the oil pump had quit as bottom end was almost dry of any oil. Pulled engine to look at timing chain and sure enough,,,the adjuster piston had popped out of it's slot and the chain was wrapped around the crankshaft. I think the oil pump was what started the failure but with no gauge, it was a goner before we could do anything. Bought a replacement engine at a wreckin yard with under 100,000 miles and trk still going strong. It gots a mechanical gauge now,,,,,,
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 4:58am |
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My oldest son works on these quit a bit and he recommends a 5W30 oil and absolutely do not use the high mileage rated oil. Change at 3,000 m. Last change on my Linc. I went with Mobil 1 oil and filter. About to change again and the oil still looks excellent. Because of the long chain and the slippers Ford wants oil to get to the upper end as fast as possible. He says also if you hear a tick in the engine get it hooked to the shop immediately. Don't drive it to he shop.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 9:54am |
re: Because of the long chain and the slippers Ford wants oil to get to the upper end as fast as possible.
kinda backs up the guy here who puts high pressure oil pumps in his 5.4s...
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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1955CA
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Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 10:31am |
I had read that too jaybmiller.....there is some better oil pump they recommend putting in them.
Mine says it calls for 5W20, but I've been using Petro Canada Supreme synthetic 5W30 because that's what my new VW's take so I just wanted to standardize my oil stock here for the personal vehicles.
So far it's been more reliable than my newer Powerstrokes, LOL.
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 19 Dec 2018 at 7:57pm |
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I yanked the codes out today. It had a pile of codes but I suspect they all point at the phasers.
I've got a p0012,p0021 ones for retarded cam and ones for advanced cam. Next is p0340,p0350 both codes point to cam position sensor.
The a couple codes for lean condition which I'd guess to be a result of the cam being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
And last is a random miss fire code.
So is my assumption that a bad phaser is at fault correct or should I be leaning more twords the selenoid?
Any reason I can't just do the phaser? I'm getting very mixed signals. From the poking around I've done on the internet a large amount of people say just to do the phaser.
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