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Fixing to split our D21 |
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CALEBnOK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Nov 2011 Location: Oklahoma Points: 618 |
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I'm about to split her in two but was curious to see what other members have for splitting stands. I'm going to fabricate some this weekend.
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8370 |
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Need some holes in frame rails about where primer pump is. The stand I borrowed had crossmember between rear wheels to put jack on to support engine while fastened to frame rails. Might remove front weights but I can't see how they would be enough to make it front heavy. Just use caution.
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fastallis ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 13 Nov 2010 Location: Avilla indiana Points: 172 |
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What is the extra tank mounted under the platform for?
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CALEBnOK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Nov 2011 Location: Oklahoma Points: 618 |
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The hydrualics are seperate from the rearend. They did that to help solve the rearend failures. Ive seen several d21's around here with this done. I know the mechanic that did them in the 70's and he said they never had another failure after seperating the systems
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21007 |
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I'm too ignorant to understand why making the hydraulics separate from the driveline would "solve" rearend failures. Did they go to 80/90 wt oil in the rearend ?? The type of oil used is/was the same as a 5020 John Deere and they didn't have any rearend problems. The fact is the final drives and axle bearings were a bit undersized and if then the HP was increased, you had set the clock ticking for trouble down the road. And for all those who know so much, if the D-21 was adequate in final drive size, why then did they increase the size of everything in the 220 ??? Even the late D-21's had 3.25" wide bull gears instead of the older 2.75" wide gears.
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CALEBnOK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Nov 2011 Location: Oklahoma Points: 618 |
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This tractor has 80-90 in the rear. It was this way when we bought it.
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CALEBnOK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Nov 2011 Location: Oklahoma Points: 618 |
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And i couldnt agree more that the d21 rearends were junk
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DougG ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8191 |
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Just my opinion, but, if the so called junk rear end D21 tractors were inspected right after the rear ends went out, the injector pumps were turned up, probably weighted down horribly and most likely low on oil, each machine has a limit, abuse them till they crap out , then they are junk- most of the time its poor operators that cause the problems
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CALEBnOK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Nov 2011 Location: Oklahoma Points: 618 |
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Doug the rear gears in a 210 220 rear end are literally twice as wide because of severe failures.
The allis dealer that did this conversion said nearly every tractor they sold had a rear end failure. Im sure maintenance was key but you could take a johndeere like a 5020 and neglect it just as bad and never have a failure. |
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Mike Kroupa ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 02 Oct 2009 Location: pierce, ne Points: 335 |
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Also remember the 5010/20 had planetary final drives were the AC's did not. Nice looking tractor btw!!, Mike
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21007 |
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My point was the final drives on D-21's were borderline adequate at best. If the HP (and torque rise) were left stock and the tractor was not weighted down much above 13,000 lbs (100 lbs per PTO HP) the later 3 1/4" wide gears probably held up decently. But, I doubt that they would have ever met the reliability of a D-17 S3 or S4. I think of the thousands of those models that spent thousands of hours pulling a 3 x 16's or 4 x 14's plow and NEVER EVER had a differential or final drive failure due to inadequate design or strength. It just didn't happen. The mighty D-21 would have been better served as it was originally....non-turbo and 103 PTO HP.
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Mike Kroupa ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 02 Oct 2009 Location: pierce, ne Points: 335 |
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I agree with you 100%.I was referring to the fact that the planetary design distributes the torque load evenly to three contact points. A local,long time retired AC mechanic, talks about replacing the 821 fluid with GL5 gear lube in early 190 XT's. This was done to preserve the 2 pinion differential until improvements were installed. AC Engineers did an about face in their designing of the 7000 series rear end which proved to be almost bullet proof right out of the box. My 7080 has over 9500 hrs. and has been trouble free from the range box back. My thoughts, Mike
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21007 |
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Planetary designed final drives have their advantages and disadvantages. They are less efficient in transmitting power thru them. They are more compact in size and can easily have wet brakes incorporated into them. They can be rugged and long lived, but if they aren't BIG enough, they too will fail early. Same can be said for bull gear/bull pinion designs. If built BIG enough, they can be very reliable. They are more efficient in power loss thru them. Older Cat Challengers are bull gear/bull pinion designed and I've never heard of one failing due to a design flaw. Many in California have 20,000 plus hrs on them. If the D-21, even with the later 3.25" wide gears were problem free, why was that design dropped in favor of the replacement model 220 with the inner axle bearing relocated and final drive gears made much beefier ?? I think that says it all.
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shameless dude ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607 |
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what ever you do....please make it STRONG! I don't wanna read an obituary!
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RGW ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 09 Feb 2014 Location: Winfield, Mo. Points: 24 |
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I was very interested in this, as I am going to split my D21 this winter also, but it seemed to get off track quickly. I am going by the book, as I don’t want to drill holes in the frame to split it. I am going to remove the weights, front axle, support casting, and side rails. Then remove the engine and clutch with a cherry picker.
If anyone has any pointers, that would be great. Thanks |
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Orange Blood ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053 |
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Never had to split a D21, but if I did, I would just build a frame rail "clamp on" where the frame sat down in a "U" shaped pocket to cradle the frame, and bolts tight on top. Since that isn't as good as bolting to the frame in two spots on each side, I would add some sort of tie off rod or bar, that runs from the bottom of my front splitting stand up to the front of the frame somewhere. The stands I built are a two post design for the engine support, one vertical support on each side down to a 4" heavy wall square tube running horizontal under and perpendicular to the tractor with roller jacks on each side. This really isn't meant to be a picture of the stand, but you can kind of see what I am talking about.
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
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CALEBnOK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Nov 2011 Location: Oklahoma Points: 618 |
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Thats about how i planned on building mine.
I want to make them clamp tonthe frame rails but will be adjustable so i can split my 210 later on and split a 190 |
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8370 |
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Orange,looks like you got the good out of that limiter.
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Orange Blood ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053 |
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Somebody did, actually that is the way we bought it, got a good deal, a few parts and now it is a good chore type tractor. The previous owner used it on a big rototiller, death on TLs.
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
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